Winter Camp XXIX - 2005

Currently, we plan to have Winter Camp XXIX and that's close to all we know other than the following:

Early Returns:

Day One pictures.

Day Two pictures.

Day Three Pictures (coming soon).

Day Four pictures.

Day Five pictures.

Feel free to post your thoughts and comments on planning for Winter Camp XXIX!

Name and E-mail

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Check out what everyone else is saying:
E-mail addresses and names are not guaranteed to be who they say they are.
That being said, we should tell you that the webmaster can tell who said what.

On Friday, 26-Sep-2008 01:22:57 EDT, ezlrbooe said
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On Wednesday, 23-Jul-2008 14:32:52 EDT, Pol said

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On Tuesday, 24-Apr-2007 05:58:39 EDT, lulktnfp said
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On Tuesday, 02-May-2006 14:16:50 EDT, lina said
....lots of snow. brrrr.
why not have an eagle scout winter camp in bermuda?
Ohio has moutains in the south, where they just catch the apps.

On Saturday, 31-Dec-2005 21:16:30 EST, Jeff Lang said
Hi Steve,
Looks like another successful winter camp. Great job. I can't wait to hear what an awesome time the guys had. Thanks for all you do.

On Saturday, 31-Dec-2005 20:49:49 EST, Steve said
Pictures for Days 1-5 (except 3) are up. If anyone else has some to share, I'd love to include them.
I called and wound up taking my printer for service today. I didn't remember the details of my service plan but it was a carry and replace - I returned mine and got a new one (except mine was no longer being made, so the new one is actually a new model). Same basic specs, but a little faster... My cost was a whopping $49 to get another 2 year plan... The cool part is that the new printer takes the same toner as the old one and thanks to Kristie, we got back our nearly new toner cartridges.

On Friday, 30-Dec-2005 22:06:46 EST, Dave said
Have a festive last breakfast! I'll try to throw all my leftovers from the holidays together for lunch for a similar eating experience.

On Friday, 30-Dec-2005 10:03:17 EST, Lee G. said
Checking in from Chicago. Glad to hear that another Winter Camp is a success.

On Thursday, 29-Dec-2005 14:32:07 EST, Oak said
This is "Oak". I enjoyed the 2 days at camp and enjoyed the
Gran Prix race, blind hike, Bollmano's pizza, excellent movie,
hobby draw and beating Nick Bibee in Battle Chess circle!
We got a lot done on the service project and I learned a ton
for my WC History final exam essay. Have a ton of fun during
Golf and Snow Soccer which I will miss dearly. Say "HI" to
Jeff Rand for me. Drive home safely & bring more guys next year! 30th aniversary is special - 2006. Mr. Dave Oakley.

On Thursday, 29-Dec-2005 09:02:11 EST, Kristie said
Either the Beast is feeling kind-hearted or he must be really sick.

On Thursday, 29-Dec-2005 08:16:47 EST, Steve said
Paul took him both times.

On Thursday, 29-Dec-2005 01:15:02 EST, Kristie said
Who won, the Beast or Kupser?

On Thursday, 29-Dec-2005 01:10:34 EST, Steve said
Yes, we know most of the pictures don't work. sorry, the connection is just too slow...

On Wednesday, 28-Dec-2005 19:53:24 EST, John said
I can assure you that a day and half of winter camp is better than none, but not nearly enough to experience all that the weekette has to offer.
Steve also failed to mention that there was some LAN gaming happening with the highlight being "K2 pwn3d some noobs".

On Wednesday, 28-Dec-2005 13:35:46 EST, Steve said
Camp is going very well so far. We're doing the service project today. Ranger Dave came down and briefed us this morning and reminded us to be careful driving as the roads were actually icy.
Yesterday we got in a pretty good game of Battle Chess and the new tag out rules worked pretty well. The game was won by Ethan R capturing King Steve D (crowned in a previous tagout) when Steve remembered the order of operations but not the operation. His answer to 2+3x5 was 30. The LeMans race went pretty well too although one team managed to lose an axle about halfway through the course. Blind Hike and baking were also well-received.
So far the hit activities are Blokus, Speed, and of course the pinball machine...
Tonight it's dinner and a movie with National Treasure as the movie and Bollmano's pizza covering dinner.
We've had a few visitors too. John Howey came for setup and left this morning. Lou arrived just in time for dinner last night and stayed through lunch (which he helped cook). Andy Whaley also made a brief appearance yesterday and his fiancee accompanied him (I didn't get introduced, but she seemed nice and knew that Pi to three decimals was 3.142, so we approved).
We'll try for pics later, right now we're connected at 19.2k

On Tuesday, 27-Dec-2005 21:39:55 EST, Jeff said
Hope all is well at camp. I experienced a temperature rise of 50 degrees after leaving camp this morning.

On Saturday, 24-Dec-2005 21:06:22 EST, Steve said
Jamie and Chris did indeed pay yesterday. John Howey is planning to attend at least part of the first day and maybe the first night. Lou Pezet is doing the same.

On Friday, 23-Dec-2005 01:37:19 EST, Steve said
We lost Dan Swan today, but Jamie White and Chris Corbin are supposed to pay tomorrow. Ethan Rein paid yesterday.

On Thursday, 22-Dec-2005 02:51:48 EST, Nancy B Gagnon for William said
If I had looked before I leaped I would have seen the current schedule listed above!
Severe apologies and I am beating self with a wet noodle.
Nancy B Gagnon grandmother of William
Please excuse me!???????????! n

On Thursday, 22-Dec-2005 02:42:40 EST, Nancy Gagnon (grandmother) for William Gagnon said
William Gagnon is suppose to be going to Winter Camp. What I personally need to know is info on the ride to and from camp. Of course where to meet for these rides and the time.
Thankyou Nancy B Gagnon (grandmother of William)
William's E Mail is...

On Wednesday, 21-Dec-2005 10:31:49 EST, Steve D. said
Shopping Trip 2005 will start at Sam's on Northline at 10:00 am, Saturday December 24.

On Tuesday, 20-Dec-2005 20:57:21 EST, Steve said
Our current Roster is:
Aaron Ankiel, Corey Curtiss, Dan Swan, Ethan Morlock, Gabriel Church, Jason Licht, Joe Roberts, Larry Bibee Jr., Logan Pacheco, Nick Bibee, Pavel Jarosz, Ramsey Allan, Rob Murphy, Ryan Tamoshunas, Samuel Chomic, Scott McHugh, TR Evangelista, William Gagnon, Roger Horn, Dave Oakley, Dennis McHugh, Doug Wilson, Gordon Draper, Jeff Rand, Keith King, Mark Bollman, Paul Kupser, Ron Donohue, Steve Donohue
Not all of them are full time unfortunately. Many people on the list are uncertain on their rides. If you know your details, please give me or Ethan a call.

On Tuesday, 20-Dec-2005 15:19:45 EST, Steve D. said
The alternative of course is, does anyone have some tables we can take to camp? I have 2 but we could use 3 or 4 more 5-6' tables.

On Sunday, 18-Dec-2005 22:54:40 EST, Steve said
Big problem: we thought we had located the white folding tables that were purchased and used at Winter Camp XXVII, but we hadn't. Does anyone know their current whereabouts? I don't think they appeared last year.

On Sunday, 18-Dec-2005 22:54:24 EST, Steve said
Add TR Evengalista too.

On Sunday, 18-Dec-2005 00:28:08 EST, Steve D. said
Add Dave Oakley, Scott & Dennis McHugh, and Ethan Morlock to the list. We've extended the deadline for payment to 12/23, which should give some of our leaders a chance to pay.

On Thursday, 15-Dec-2005 14:12:37 EST, Ron said
Wow, now that this is back up I expect tons of catch-up posts.

On Tuesday, 13-Dec-2005 11:50:14 EST, Doug said
I have the Boomerangs, when to pick them up from Ted Bailey in Ann Arbor. We also stopped at a park by his house and did a few throws, shouldn’t have a problem getting them to come back on my second throw it returned within about 15 ft. Ted also gave me electronic versions of several Boomerang booklets and instructional materials. This should be a fun event.

On Monday, 12-Dec-2005 19:22:23 EST, said
Add Jason Licht and Dan Swan to the list of youth who will be attending.

On Monday, 12-Dec-2005 15:11:29 EST, Mark--) said
I have three year-end (ish--one of them is "The World in 2005" from (i)The Economist(/i) and is probably more "year-start") magazines set aside for this year's time capsule. There should be 2-3 others in my mail before I leave for camp.

On Sunday, 11-Dec-2005 20:50:25 EST, test said
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On Tuesday, 06-Dec-2005 10:14:17 EST, Steve said
Lou Pezet and Tim Hunt are also potential attendees.

On Tuesday, 06-Dec-2005 08:14:56 EST, Steve said
We're currently at 16 full-time paid and 2 part-time. Full timers are: Joe Roberts, Pavel Jarosz, Gabriel Church, Rob Murphy, Aaron Ankiel, Corey Curtiss, Logan Pacheco, Doug Wilson, Steve Donohue, Ron Donohue, Mark Bollman, Keith King, Paul Kupser, and Gordon Draper
Part-time are Jeff Rand (1 day) and Roger Horn (2 days).

On Saturday, 26-Nov-2005 12:21:42 EST, AyronAye said

On Thursday, 24-Nov-2005 19:40:41 EST, Steve said
No, that's a mistake. The meeting is on the 25th. Amazingly, no one has caught that until now...

On Thursday, 24-Nov-2005 14:42:22 EST, GWD said
Is it true that the planning meeting is on the 24th (Thanksgiving Day) as stated above? If so, I missed it again. Being a traveller, I love the theme.

On Wednesday, 23-Nov-2005 21:56:37 EST, Steve said
I've done some work on potential games for the World Games Emporium. There are a couple of different ways we could approach the theme. We could either go with games set in countries (ie, they appear on or are the map) or with games from particular countries. I'll provide the list and some details about each game including how hard I think it might be...
Geography first:
Regional (one or more countries/continents)
10 Days in Africa is a kid's game but a lot of adults like it too. You try to collect planes, tranes and automobiles that connect to get you a 10 day trip.
Risk Godstorm adds a mythological element and includes Western Europe plus Atlantis. It is more complex than regular Risk.
Diplomacy covers Europe and part of Asia. it allows seven players but is fairly complex.
Colonial Diplomacy has the same rules as Diplomacy (more or less) but covers Southeast Asia.
Parthenon is set in ancient greece. It is somewhat hard to learn but is a good game.
Fish Eat Fish is a pretty simple game that is set in any ocean you like.
Ticket to Ride is a map of the US and southern Canada. It's kind of a rummy/geography mix as you try to build trains and connect routes between cities. it's easy to learn and play for 5.
Formula De is a racing game set on a French track. I've seen first graders play it (with some coaching).
Camelot Legends is knights of the round table. it's slightly difficult but not impossible to learn.
Kingmaker is set in England. I wouldn't bring it unless you had a gun to my head, but I wanted to be thorough.
Monopoly (the base one) is set in New Jersey. Wintercampopoly is set at D-A.
Maharaja is set in India and involves a lot of choices. it's not hard but can be painfully slow for beginners.
Power Grid is another game with many choices. The object is to be the most successful power company in the US.
Global Games (ie, the whole world is the map):
Settlers of the Stone Age has 4 players try to become the most advanced tribe by exploring the world, settling tribes, and developing technology in 4 categories. It is a little hard, but doable but only for 4 players.
Risk is up to 6 players in a furioius mostly dice-fueled battle. It's pretty simple and many people will probably have played it before.
Conquest is another world domination game. It's fairly easy to learn.
En Garde doesn't have a map but covers fencing and therefore feels French. it is very easy to play and learn and allows 6 players.
Kung fu fighting is set in china (no map) but it is clearly chinese influences. It is similar to En Garde.
Ninja Burger has the players as part of a team of ninja fast food employees. It's got a japanese flavor and is relatively easy to learn and play.
Honor of the Samurai is likewise Japanese in flavor and is pretty simple as well.
Redneck Life is set in the American south. it's about on a par with actual Life.

Origins (most of these are "abstract" meaning they don't have any real world elements).
Hefneftahl is Scandanavian. We've played it at Winter Camp before during Viking week.
Chess has widely disputed origins but the way we play now is distinctly European.
Chinese Chess is very different than the chess we know (different pieces and moves, played on the lines, not the squares).
Shogi is Japanese chess. It is somewhere between the two but has a unique element in that when you take a piece it can join your side.
Brandubh (aka Noble Celts) is from Ireland it is somewhat similar to Hefneftahl
Pachisi is of Indian origin.
If we're less fussy about origins we could probably find games invented in a number of countries but which don't necessarily reflect that country (for example, Power Grid was invented in Germany but has a US map).
I'm sure there are others that I've left out. All these are in my collection though so if we can pick a category it would help. If anyone wants to look them up, you can check out where you can find more information on games than you ever realized there was.

On Wednesday, 23-Nov-2005 21:49:51 EST, Steve said
We have 6 (b)youth(/b) and 6 adults paid so far.

On Tuesday, 22-Nov-2005 20:23:17 EST, Ethan said
See everyone on Friday. Call me if you need directions. 313-618-5860

On Wednesday, 26-Oct-2005 13:06:49 EDT, Ethan said
Winter Camp is going to be great! I'm on the lookout for some chairmen for these events

On Monday, 24-Oct-2005 12:13:04 EDT, David C. Oakley - "Oak" said
The flyer with a World Globe and sash is COOL! It will help put the word out to future O-A wintercampers. I have my Advanced Origami hobby draw ready to roll. If you have
another equipment / food meeting, let me know. OAK.

On Saturday, 22-Oct-2005 18:56:14 EDT, Steve said
Stupid computers.
It works now.

On Saturday, 22-Oct-2005 17:30:52 EDT, Dave said
The promo flyer and both minute links get 404'd.

On Thursday, 20-Oct-2005 23:25:42 EDT, Steve said
Ethan and I had the brainstorm today to declare bunk selection, first pay, first pick to encourage paying earlier. We'll resolve to the day (so as not to make lines an issue) and then any conflicts on the day will be resolved by pecking order. Because this is new and somewhat unconventional, anyone who pays by October 31, will be considered to have paid on October 31.
There will be no exceptions.

On Thursday, 06-Oct-2005 15:18:57 EDT, Ethan said
Meeting is at 1pm at paul's

On Thursday, 06-Oct-2005 15:18:46 EDT, Ethan said
Hopefully, the after thanksgiving meeting will be a wrap up for this one and we can get going on any big deal projects early.

On Thursday, 06-Oct-2005 15:18:34 EDT, Ethan said
let me know if you need directions or have ideas for the meeting and can't be there.

On Thursday, 06-Oct-2005 15:18:20 EDT, Ethan said
Meeting at Paul Kupser's house on October 16th. We're going to pick out activities and meals.

On Monday, 03-Oct-2005 16:46:31 EDT, Ethan said
We've got the schedule picked out, and we just have to fill in the events. look for another meeing to come around sometime in the next few weeks.

On Monday, 03-Oct-2005 16:46:07 EDT, Ethan said
Price: $38.38 for youth, $42.42 for adults.
Theme, around the world in a weekette.

On Monday, 03-Oct-2005 16:45:48 EDT, Ethan said
I've got the minutes from the planning meeting we had after the ordeal together. If you want a copy, let me know.

On Monday, 03-Oct-2005 02:07:11 EDT, said

On Monday, 03-Oct-2005 00:35:28 EDT, Steve said
Test message to ensure this is working.

On Monday, 19-Sep-2005 09:49:46 EDT, Didem Kaynak said
I am an operational manager our Junior camps in Turkey. We are thinking of organizing a winter camp in Bulgaria or Romania.
Could you please inform me abouth your Youth camps

On Friday, 16-Sep-2005 00:10:49 EDT, Steve said
So who plans to be at the meeting on Sunday? I have hopes of attending.

On Tuesday, 13-Sep-2005 22:50:23 EDT, said

On Wednesday, 07-Sep-2005 22:20:00 EDT, Steve said
One last test

On Wednesday, 07-Sep-2005 22:19:13 EDT, said
Hopefully, that got rid of at least some of it. If you encounter any problems on this or any other site in the network, please let me know.

On Wednesday, 07-Sep-2005 22:17:37 EDT, Steve Donohue said
We are currently combatting some hackers who seem to have targetted the wcu as a potential way to send spam. There may be some bumps as we try to convince them to take their crap elsewhere.

On Wednesday, 24-Aug-2005 23:47:22 EDT, Kupser said
As far as I know the Royal Rangers have backed out of going to D-A for that weekend. But we are as far as I know still in tents. Having the meeting in BC is only fitting since we will be there for the weekette.

On Thursday, 18-Aug-2005 22:34:23 EDT, Ethan said
BC is good. I sort of forgot that we won't be in Trout Lake camp. oops. I like the indian theme idea a lot. bring ideas to the meeting.

On Thursday, 18-Aug-2005 01:21:19 EDT, Steve said
We may not be able to make our plans to head over to Draper since the Rangers could still be there. What if we chose BC?
As I was assembling the last 60 or so newsletters I had this thought about making Winter Camp into a big ceremonies event with a Native American theme. Ethan had talked about having a big project. What if the big project was a new tepee, outfits, headresses, or something similar? What if we had some native american foods (not just made up recipes from the "this is an interesting looking squash" approach, but actual recipes.

On Thursday, 18-Aug-2005 00:43:33 EDT, Ethan said
We're going to have a Winter Camp planning meeting Sunday after the Ordeal. After all the clean up is done, head on over to Draper cabin. We're going to discuss price, menu schedule, and get some tentative activities planned.
This way, the November 24th meeting will be to go back over the schedule and work on the menu.

On Wednesday, 17-Aug-2005 00:50:25 EDT, Ethan said
if we had only a winter camp flag, and not a US flag, the importance of hte class A would diminish, I think. This could make us focus on the idea of starting the day instead of the importance of the flag ceremony.

On Wednesday, 17-Aug-2005 00:48:19 EDT, Ethan said

On Sunday, 14-Aug-2005 23:07:57 EDT, Steve said
I think there should be NO Continental Breakfasts this year because I think there should be only 3 meals a day - Breakfast/Brunch, Dinner, Snack. Maybe different on service project day. I do like the idea of a mandatory flag-raising though, perhaps after breakfast before departing for the first activity of the day. This might make it less "Class A" friendly, but in the winter Class A is pretty hard to spot anyhow. Better a flag in no uniform than no flag at all.

On Sunday, 14-Aug-2005 17:36:38 EDT, Ethan said
I'd like to start each day with flag raising, like maybe before breakfast is served, or after breakfast when we have a continental breakfast. If others like this idea, I think I can make a Winter Camp flag for the event. We could also raise a US flag. any thoughts?

On Sunday, 14-Aug-2005 12:22:58 EDT, said
It's August..that would be my explaination...

On Saturday, 13-Aug-2005 23:35:17 EDT, Kupser said
I see that things are slow in this area.

On Thursday, 04-Aug-2005 08:59:03 EDT, Ethan said
For build an o-meter, we'd probably have to plan more time. By the way, we are looking for youth to volunteer to run activities.

On Monday, 11-Jul-2005 13:26:53 EDT, Kupser said
Hello to all, here is some new news for Wintercamp. During my free time at Trail to Eagle camp with Mark Bollman, I had time to install a telephone inside Clear Water cabin (Ext. 242) the outside box was there but not an inside plate. Also I checked the phone line for Beaver Creek (Ext. 239). As far as I know they leave the system on all year.

On Tuesday, 05-Jul-2005 21:50:06 EDT, Jeff said
The science theme offers many possibilities. It might be appropriate to highlight a merit badge, such as surveying. Even adults could have a chance to do the requirements. This may be especially informative for those adults who only earned enough badges for a single digit number of Eagle Palms or fewer. Also, the Winter Camp College of Science and Engineering could be highlighted with several mini courses. Some thoughts include:
Winter Camp Numerology - Prof. Bollman
Engineering for the Winter Camp Hobbyist - Prof. Kupser
Winter Camp Geography - Prof. Rand
Inversive Geometry and Cellular Cosmogony - Prof. Bollman
Universal Measurement - Prof. Bollman
Fundamentals of Surveying - Prof. Wilson
Quantum Cosmology (continuation of WC II) - Prof. Rand
Physics of Winter Camp - Prof. Wilson
Biology: Conversion of Biomass into Human Fuel - Prof. S. Donohue

On Monday, 04-Jul-2005 01:01:04 EDT, Steve said
I can probably borrow the 1373 track.

On Sunday, 03-Jul-2005 23:18:45 EDT, Jeff said
I believe Mike Osvath is leading a den in Commerce Twp.

On Saturday, 02-Jul-2005 16:46:55 EDT, Ethan said
I was thinking someone might have one, or know a guy who is holding onto one for a Cub Pack, and we could use it.

On Saturday, 02-Jul-2005 16:18:15 EDT, Dave said

On Saturday, 02-Jul-2005 16:17:11 EDT, Dave said

On Saturday, 02-Jul-2005 15:59:33 EDT, Ethan said
anyone know where we can get a pinewood derby track?

On Sunday, 19-Jun-2005 22:49:51 EDT, said
the proposed schedule in headlined with XXVIII and not XXIX, it all sounds good but needs work.

On Sunday, 19-Jun-2005 22:36:17 EDT, Kupser said
I like the idea of an outdoor oven for the cooking of the bread. Back in the day Mr. Pezet and I built one for district training and was able to get it to 450 degrees and hold it for a long time. After we were done with it we decided to see how hot it could get before it destroyed itself. Finally at about 750 degrees it died. If we want one for camp I have one that is much better and will prabably meat our needs. The construction in quite easy and could cook any thing, Let me know and I can build one for camp. Measurements of the inside of the oven are about 36" by, 36" by, 24". It was fueled with just charcoal.

On Monday, 13-Jun-2005 10:40:14 EDT, Ethan said
maybe one of the baking teams could make the snack in the campfire oven and the other could make breakd and stuff for the rest of teh weekette in BC.
the highpoint quest is a hike that goes to Baldy and the highest point in camp, does some sort of scientific measurement and then later, we use that data to figure out which is actually higher, not that we don't know already.
the induction arrowman bingo goes by ordeal instead of name. for example, I could sign for "Spring '97".
there's a description of the 4 man chess tournament in the new activity section.
for the 'build an -ometer' we could build thermoometers, baramoteres, or any other thing that measures stuff.
THe quilting activity is to give everyone a piece of fabric and have them all sew it together throughout camp, creating a huge quilt. I think it would be neat ot have everyone contribute to a camp long project.
if we're going to do the cheater pinewood derby, we need to get the word out soon, so that people can begin to make their cars, and we can track down a track.

On Sunday, 12-Jun-2005 21:56:39 EDT, Steve said
I'll go for a couple of easy ones. Even though we suck and usually hand them out at camp, the goal is really to hand them out before camp, hopefully as people pay. New people should get whole books and veterans should get new pages.
Making an oven to bake bread seems like a lot of work and I'm not sure we'll be happy with the payoff. If we did it for one snack or something I'd be cool with it (again depending on how much time would be in it) but I definitely wouldn't want to be every meal w/bread, cakes, or cookies on it.

On Sunday, 12-Jun-2005 21:56:02 EDT, Steve said
And now a proposed schedule with comments and commentary welcome (put them on this page).

On Friday, 10-Jun-2005 22:28:21 EDT, Steve said
Doubtless a record as we have the three key youth leaders all selected/recruited/committed for 2005.

On Monday, 06-Jun-2005 14:16:29 EDT, Ethan said
any theme ideas?

On Saturday, 26-Feb-2005 10:37:32 EST, Kupser said
Hello to all of you I am here in school and bored out of my mind. thought that I would log in and update my doings in the past few weeks. Since having the Kitchen in my posssesion and my organized impulses I have completely washed the kitch in the dish washer so it is truly cleaned. Also dealing with the assorted bins and containers for the storage and transport of the kitchen I took the oppertunity to put it all in the same sized containters. So when it comes time for it to be packed up all the bins are the same and all of the lids are the same. They are 14 gallon Rubermaid containers that I found at Meijers. They are not brittle when they get cold which is a good thing due to that two of the clear bins broke at the corners, shattering from the cold. And keeping with the wintercamp theme they are all Dark Blue with matching lids. I bought 24 in all, reason being that if we wanted to divide the food according to the meals that we are having, than there is enough containers foe the weekette. Also handling all the items ing the kitchen I had to cull the items. I had to toss one teflon frying pan due to half the non-stick coating was scratched of with metal utensils. Two of the small bread pans they were packed away wet and almost rusted together. Hopefully everybody has their tetnious shots updated for next year. And a few plastic utensils either broke in transit, were rusted up, or melted in the dish washer. Not to worry these items do not need to be replaced we have plenty on hand to handle the loss. If there is any question for me just post and I'll eventuall get to it.

On Tuesday, 25-Jan-2005 10:35:32 EST, Ethan said
I think it would be fun to have a talkent show of some kind, maybe we could tie that in with a campfire program. We've not had a campfire for a few years. It would have to be organized ahead of time so people had some time to get together acts.

On Monday, 17-Jan-2005 11:59:21 EST, Jeff said
Among the Winter Campers, there is much to be offered through Winter Camp University. It just might help someone later in life. I believe Mike Osvath is an example of an adult who aquired skills and interests through the O-A that he now uses in his career. If we are to offer some courses, they need to be scheduled. To provide quality, it requires advance preparation. Instructors need to know with some certainty that the course will be held. Further, squeezing the course into free time slot, puts additional pressure on the over-exntended instructor. That being said, I don't know that the Winter Camp University needs to be held every year or an individual course needs to be held annually. Perhaps some of the course work could be done on the website. For example, for the College of Winter Camping there could be a place to log your winter camping experiences.

On Sunday, 16-Jan-2005 20:33:10 EST, Steve said
What if we had a mandatory breakfast from 10:00 am - 11:00 am 2 days then cruised the day through to a dinner at 6 and snack at 10 or 11? I'd say every day, but it would crash on service day.

On Sunday, 16-Jan-2005 20:28:46 EST, Steve said
I think if there was a diverse enough range of quality classes at WCU then making it mandatory would make sense. Right now, there's really only two courses that have ever been offered: History of Winter Camp, and Cold Weather Survival.
Clearly, HWC is pretty self-serving and therefore might not be that great a class (but could still be offered for those who were interested: I know I spent a lot of time this year explaining things in the museum. On the other hand the cold weather class is useful and scouts are unlikely to encounter someone else with Jeff's cold weather experience.
I think the key for those who would like to make WCU part of the program would be to create more/better classes. With a good program, it would be stupid to deny that it had a place at Winter Camp. By good, I mean a program that provided lessons that were scout or career oriented and provided valuable skills outside of the realm of Winter Camp. There are a number of cool courses listed, perhaps syllabi could be developed.

On Sunday, 16-Jan-2005 18:56:07 EST, Ethan said
I was thinking we could go with Mr. Wilson's kitchen assignement idea and plan free time in the morning. This would allow the winter campers who want to sleep late to do so and allow for time for winter camp university. we could also have a bunch of stuff in the afternoons, since we're allowing people to sleep late.

On Tuesday, 11-Jan-2005 10:26:33 EST, Steve D. said
The trading post thing really snaps when you know that Ron brought his own sodas to camp then paid 50 cents for each one he drank.

On Monday, 10-Jan-2005 16:06:05 EST, Lou said
I agree with the steve on the suggestions for the kitchen and the info packet. It's always been a pain trying to figure out if stuff wasw for one meal or multiple. I did not like the "families" It formes cliches that I think have always been our problem in the past. Plus if there was a disagreement between 2 family members that made working on the other meals and stuff that much harder. I did like the point system we had a couple of years ago.
Once more I DO NOT think we should schedule WCU classes. I would make people think that they have to attend. If you made the provision that they didn't have to attend then that attitude would carryover to other events. "If I don't have to participate in WCU why should I participate in activity X or help with meal Y."
Another think (yes I know beating a dead horse) contrabaned soda. The trading post is there for a reason. people are taking money away from camp if you bring your own soda and don't buy it from camp. If the concern is being in another cabin then buy a case or soda from the trading post and keep it in the other cabin. (Yes this has been done before.)

On Friday, 07-Jan-2005 00:18:09 EST, Ethan said
I like steve's idea to spread more word on winter camp. I'm working on a plan to have winter camp mentioned at every chapter meeting. hopefully this will spread more knowledge around the chapter and generate some questions about it and some interest.
I'm always one to push having three forld displays present, and I think I'll work on one for 2005 lodge events. if you have ideas for that sort of thing, let me know.

On Thursday, 06-Jan-2005 20:38:02 EST, Mister Horn said
Greetings WCers. I popped in for a report on XXIX. Based on the comments, it would appear that there was a riot in the kitchen resulting in mass starvation?
An idea, skip meals. This would allow more time for program, facilitate self denial, reduce costs, encourage hunting and create significant appreciation for food upon returning home.

On Thursday, 06-Jan-2005 20:21:18 EST, Jeff said
I might agree that the kitchen duties weren't evenly distributed, but I saw some value for some more in-depth experiences resulting from the families, where interactions are more superficial in the traditional format. Also, I do think the family structure provided a sense of idendity throughout the weekette. Sometimes idendity is a good thing. I thought the fact that the murder game fereted out the "bleeding heart liberals" provided for some light hearted fun. I am glad to see a nucleus of leadership forming well in advance of Winter Camp. We have been very poor in really delegating responsibilies in times past and it would work well if the 3 key youth leaders and their advisors were in place to guide the planning meeting. If this corps of leadership could meet for a few minutes each evening at Camp to prepare for the next day, it could help with advance preparations that are needed for the kitchen and activities.

On Thursday, 06-Jan-2005 15:13:05 EST, Steve D. said
Another shopping idea - it would probably be worthwhile to make sure the actual shopping sheets made it to the kitchen, perhaps with instructions that shoppers should make note of any clear exceptions to what was expected - for example, I was to buy about 8lbs of meat for philly cheese sandwiches. I opted to buy more when I realized I could get it cheaper by having them slice a roast and that we had basically just taken the wings off the hooters meal, meaning there was less food. Someone making that meal might have left the extra 4 lbs behind (yes, it was that good a deal - almost a buck a pound in savings) for the next meal since there meal sheet said 8 lbs.
The flip side - I had to buy about 24lbs of chicken and would up buying 25 or so for two meals. We used it all at the bbq meal and had to buy more for fajitas.

On Thursday, 06-Jan-2005 12:45:56 EST, Steve D. said
This may be controversial.
I think we should prepare an information packet for parents about Winter Camp. I think the packet should explain what Winter Camp is and then talk a little bit about who are leaders are. Mo told me one of the reasons he came to camp was because he was worried we wouldn't have enough adults. I'm glad he came, but not because we would have been short otherwise. I think the problem is that from the outside there don't seem to be many leaders going. At the chapter level, Paul, Mike, Keith, and I are the most visible. Mike and Keith are a little too young for parents to instantly recognize them as adults. Paul's shift leaves him less visible and my own ill-health this year made me less visible too. From the outside, it may look like there's one sickly fat guy, 2 young punks, and a pyromaniac going to camp.
I think we have a fairly accomplished group of leaders (mostly Eagle Scout Vigil Honor college graduates with a wide variety of scout trainings behind them) and we aren't making the most of it from a selling camp standpoint. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we need to work really hard to sell camp, but it wouldn't hurt us to point out that kids who come there will get to hang out with 2 PhDs, 10-15 Eagle Scouts, 2 World Jamboree veterans (or more?), 10-12 college grads, a guy whose climbed all 50 high points in the US, a guy whose visited 100 countries, successful businesmen, IT professionals, etc.
It's not that I think the adults make the program, but let's face it the collection of adults who show up at camp is pretty amazing and I think we ought to exploit it more to help parents realize that we not only have adequate numbers of leaders, but that we have quality leaders with intersting real-world experiences who just might be able to help their sons out (heck, most of us have been helped out by one or more of them even as adults).

On Thursday, 06-Jan-2005 12:10:05 EST, Doug said
I agree 100% with the kitchen, meals, and patrol comments below. For meal assignments, I think signing-up on a duty roster is the way to go. The each meal could be assigned a point value, for example Continental Breakfast might be assigned 2 people at 1 point each, Bollmanos might need 4 at 5 points. Adding all the points for the week and dividing by the number of participants would yield the required effort for each, say 10 points per person. Certain key tasks could be arranged ahead of time, for instance, Mark my want to be on Bollmanos and Ron may be required on all the meals with fried food . Then post the schedule and let people sign-up for what ever they want that totals 10 points. If you like to sleep in don’t sign-up for breakfast, if you want to learn how to make Rand stew at home sign-up for that, etc. To be fair we could give first choice to newcomers or do it in reverse pecking order.

On Thursday, 06-Jan-2005 00:49:22 EST, Ethan said
I think scheduling Winter Camp University a good idea this time around. We can really get it pushed at the Orientation Meeting, then maybe instead of having free time when optional Winter Camp University is held, we can schedule WCU, and the kids who want to lie around will be told not to interfere with class.

On Tuesday, 04-Jan-2005 19:02:15 EST, Steve said
I think Atrowmen Bingo could work if you switched it up a little. When we play in my troop, you don't just get to wander around and have people sign, you have to work from a list of people (The Scoutmaster, the SPL) etc who then sign their real names. When the drawing happens, they pull those names.
What if we modified the Winter Camp one to be something like that based on nicknames or attributes or something. So you could have "Out of State Participant", "Youth Leader", "PhD", "Youngest Camper", "Lodge Committee Chairman", etc. Then you could find out a little something about people as you went. It would require more upfront work but it could pay off a dividend.
I also think if we're going to do bingo we need to have prizes - there's nothing lamer than yelling "BINGO!" only to find out you've won nothing.

On Tuesday, 04-Jan-2005 18:40:07 EST, Ethan said
I think we should revise the schedule, so that we have a day or two with a brunch, dinner, and snack. Steve suggested this early last year, but we never really discussed it at the planning meeting. I'm all for it.
I'd also to see us make leftover dinner for dinner on the 30th, then, an activity on the morning of the 31st, then conglomerate lunch, then pack and leave.
As youth leader, I'm looking for a youth to steward the kitchen, please let me know if you're interested.
I'd also like to do a get to know each other game that isn't arrowman bingo.

On Tuesday, 04-Jan-2005 18:39:38 EST, Ethan said

On Tuesday, 04-Jan-2005 14:21:37 EST, Steve D. said
One more right now - I think we did a lackluster job on our theme. Part of the problem was a little inconsistency - I think we had mostly Pioneer events and brought mostly Cowboy accessories. I think pioneers headed west and some became cowboys but not all - we just never seemed to fire on all cylinders on the theme.
I'll try to get the evaluation forms and scores posted tonight. I haven't looked at them all yet, but I don't think this will be a banner year.

On Tuesday, 04-Jan-2005 14:12:42 EST, Steve D. said
Unrelated to that, I think we need to be sure to have the "Orientation Meeting" either right before or right after the first lunch. We did a crappy job of explaining the trading post and some other camp 'features", including patch sales and the Participation Award.
Also, I didn't like the family cooking, which looked like a veiled patrol system at the start of the week and rapidly turned into a near duplicate of patrols once we started using those teams for our other events.

On Tuesday, 04-Jan-2005 14:05:21 EST, Steve D. said
There are a few big changes I'd like to make in the kitchen for 2005.
I'd like to box/group the food as much as possible by meal so we can see what should be prepared.
I'd like to see the meal sheets show if there are other meals still using that ingredient (or maybe just an alphabetic list of ingredients that you can see where they're to be used) so we know if we should use something up or not.
A backwards calendar or other item to show meal prep times. In particular I think it would be helpful to know if a particular meal requires significant prep time. Maybe the calendar would also show that you should peel potatoes during baking for a meal the next day or something.
Lunches could still be simpler - hot dogs and beans are okay (just hot dogs would be better since they require little time/effort), sandwiches are good - maybe we could add a soup & sandwich to our current continental. I think lunches, except for the first day should be something we can prep in about half an hour. The first day can be a bit longer.
It might be cool to have something on the shopping list that suggests over/under on certain items. Maybe just a common sense guide.
Speaking of common sense guides, I think I want to try to expand the meal preparations to include proper recipes and some detailed instructions.

On Monday, 03-Jan-2005 23:52:10 EST, Steve said
I'd like to volunteer to serve as the kitchen adviser.

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