PLANNING
Winter Camp XXV - 2001

Currently, we plan to have Winter Camp XXV and that's close to all we know other than the following:

Squaw Point
Got an idea for a landmark that's been missed at camp? Now's your chance to suggest it.

The Schedule is available as is the list of Meal Themes. The schedule also includes links to specific activities and their descriptions.

The Roster so far is available.

Feel free to post your thoughts and comments on planning for Winter Camp XXV!

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Check out what everyone else is saying:
E-mail addresses and names are not guaranteed to be who they say they are.
That being said, we should tell you that the webmaster can tell who said what.

On Tuesday, 01-Jan-02 12:34:34 EST, Steve D. said
I'd like to take some of the content from the two in-camp papers and combine it with new content to create a newspaper for Winter Camp XXV. If you'd like to contribute something, please mail or email it to me by Sunday, January 6. Thanks.

On Monday, 31-Dec-01 10:06:53 EST, Steve D. said
Okay, it's all over but the cleaning and the erection of signs. That means we need to shut this thing off. Pictures of Day 5, such as they are (day 5 being mostly about cleanup), will show up in the next few days.

On Saturday, 29-Dec-01 21:33:06 EST, War Journal said
Well, the 162 Dish Banquet is over and was a smashing success. The once in a lifetime event included six guests and the entire camp crew. Nearly everyone cooked something, many people cooked multiple dishes. There wasn't a bad dish in the bunch and we're now settled in to eat leftovers for the rest of the weekette. We should have pictures and stuff for today up later (we're still collating). It is believed at this point that Jeff Rand was the first to eat 162 dishes and he was joined by Ron Donohue, Lou Pezet, Craig Summers and Steve Donohue. Steve ate so much that a button popped off his shirt in mid-banquet.

On Saturday, 29-Dec-01 12:45:49 EST, War Journal said
Oh yeah, it's t-2:37

On Saturday, 29-Dec-01 12:44:10 EST, War Journal said
It's now straight up 2:00 Winter Camp time. Programs are still being printed, eggs have been devilled and there's a whole lotta baking going on. The whole place is feeling very sam stocker as we continue to cook our 162 dishes. At the moment, more than 100 are completed or in progress.

On , > said

On Saturday, 29-Dec-01 11:15:38 EST, War Journal said
A little update on the 162 Dish Banquet:
The baking started in earnest last night. By the time the dust settled almost 30 items had been baked, leaving only 10 or so to go.
This morning, Ron filled one of those 15 gallon tubs with meat (or flesh as Jeff likes to call it) and he and Jeff went to the main lodge to begin searing it (as Mrs. Donohue [the eldest] might say).
Mr. Horn has been busily loading tubs with side dishes for the last hour or so. Mark--> and Mr. Wilson are hard at work baking still more items.
Daha is printing programs. The youth are mostly golfing. As far as we know, the High Point crew, other than Tim the golfer, is still sleeping - all contact with them has been lost.
Signing off at 12:38 pm Winter Camp time (aka t-5:09)

On Tuesday, 25-Dec-01 17:17:26 EST, Brad Alderman said
I think we should make a sign for the tree that Joel moved off the Pedro Trail during one of the service weekends. It could be the "The Joel Clement Tree of Herculean Honor" or something luike that.

On Sunday, 23-Dec-01 21:20:14 EST, Steve D. said
Okay, this is probably my last update on this: right now, I believe Gary Allen, Brent Musolf, Dave Radecki, James Ackron, Howard Hammes, Reed Shannon, and Steve Pejuan will be joining us for the banquet. The attendance is 29, with 26 full-time and a minimum of 27 on hand for the whole week.

On Sunday, 23-Dec-01 19:25:12 EST, Steve D. said
There seems to be some confusion about food shopping tomorrow. Why don't we plan on meeting here at 9:30 to arrive at Sam's at 10:00. Those not interested in driving to Allen Park before going to Southgate should just show up at Sam's. Those who don't know where I live could either call me or show up at Sam's.

On Sunday, 23-Dec-01 12:11:16 EST, John said
For those that need to know, I have email the pre-camp food inventory

On Saturday, 22-Dec-01 23:30:06 EST, Mike Hodnicki said
Hey Steve i dropped of a check in your mail box let me know if you got it please .

On Saturday, 22-Dec-01 13:30:20 EST, Tim said
I did talk to Mark today. He is going.

On Friday, 21-Dec-01 16:18:58 EST, Steve D. said
Spoke with Dr. Brent Musolf today. He'll be driving in from Bad Axe for the festivities.

On Thursday, 20-Dec-01 22:57:22 EST, Steve D. said
Just posted the latest update to the roster. Please take a look at it and let me know if there's anything there that you know to be wrong or if there's someone who plans to attend that I don't seem to know about.
Thanks.

On Thursday, 20-Dec-01 17:51:08 EST, Steve D. said
Okay, so the sale on Pepsi products was over. They had a sale on Rotgut instead. I got 3 of the cola flavored rotgut, 1 orangy rotgut and 1 lemon-lime rotgut (aka 3 cokes, a minute maid orange and a sprite) for $15.00 including deposit.

On Thursday, 20-Dec-01 14:40:38 EST, Steve D. said
I'll be collecting money and handing out manuals tonight at Lazer Tag for those who are interested.

On Thursday, 20-Dec-01 10:46:38 EST, David C. Oakley said
Steve, I am planning on first two days. I can drop off monies today or soon if your wife will be home.I can assist Paul on the shields and let me know any other small snags. Looking forward to a little blow-off and service time!! Have a great Christmas. "Oak".

On Wednesday, 19-Dec-01 02:50:58 EST, Steve D. said
He hasn't shown up so far (knock on wood!)

On Wednesday, 19-Dec-01 01:50:15 EST, Steve Clark said
Isn't this the Wintercamp year supposed to be absent Big Bro?

On Tuesday, 18-Dec-01 23:08:28 EST, Steve D. said
Heard from Howard Hammes today. He'll also be on hand for the dinner.

On Tuesday, 18-Dec-01 18:20:13 EST, Steve D. said
If anyone happens to spot a similar sale on rotgut, let's take advantage of it too.

On Tuesday, 18-Dec-01 16:35:47 EST, said

On Tuesday, 18-Dec-01 16:04:52 EST, Steve D. said
I think the consensus was no. Kristie was a maybe but she's really planning to spend time with her family over the holidsys. On a completely unrelated note, I followed up on a tip from Lou and grabbed 5 12 packs of Mountain Dew for $10.00 today. If anyone else has a Kroger card, I would imagine we could use 5 more Mountain Dews for Winter Camp. If you're going to grab 'em, say so so we don't get too many. I think 2 pepsi, 2 pepsi one and a diet mt. dew would also go over big. At roughly 16 cents a can, it's hard to pass up.

On Tuesday, 18-Dec-01 13:57:13 EST, John said
Did we ever decide on invites for Family...I don't think there was much interest except from Jaime who was more than happy to show up

On Monday, 17-Dec-01 19:32:04 EST, Steve D. said
As part of our program, I sent out invitations to about 25 ancient and not so anciennt winter campers. So far, I've heard back from Gary Allen. I imagine there'll be more.

On Monday, 17-Dec-01 18:47:46 EST, Lou said
Paul, if you could bring a couple of extra shield blanks to wintercamp it would be appreciated. I need a couple for the Axe Throwing. Thanks.

On Sunday, 16-Dec-01 13:09:37 EST, Mark--> said
Casino Night is ready to go--just have to pack up the stuff from my office. The WCFO is also ready, provided the shot makes it.

On Saturday, 15-Dec-01 23:36:06 EST, Mike Hodnicki said
Other than that we should be all set

On Saturday, 15-Dec-01 23:32:04 EST, Mike Hodnicki said
Paul has collected all the stuff for the sheilds except for the paint and brushes. Paul said he talked to dave about paint and brushes.

On Saturday, 15-Dec-01 11:58:01 EST, Steve Clark said
I think viking explorers is close to ready...maybe we have to make a board still....not sure about King's Table (I need to talk to Steve)....Blin dHike is set (just gotta pick the destination :) ) and do we have the wood and paint for squaw point.

On Saturday, 15-Dec-01 11:22:11 EST, Jeff said
Blindfolds are ready. They are not due for a washing for a few years.

On Saturday, 15-Dec-01 04:29:19 EST, Dave said
I'm hoping my youth chair has us covered on the soccer ball portion...

On Saturday, 15-Dec-01 02:56:54 EST, Steve D. said
From my end, we've completed playtesting on Viking Explorers and components need to be found or made (nothing big, just some business cards). King's Table is ready to go. I also agreed to work on program/decorations for the Dinner. I have decorations pretty well covered, but will need a few guys (preferably tall and thin) to help hang stuff in the main lodge. Volunteers welcome. I'm also working on a banquet program (both an order of doing stuff and a physical program). Suggestions for either are welcome.

On Saturday, 15-Dec-01 02:44:13 EST, Steve D. said
Okay, so here's a list of who said they'd do what. Can you please let us know where you're at so we can get you help if you need it or whatever (note, that means we expect to hear from you even if you're all set). A little report from the Banquet guys would be nice too.
Adam PezetOatley Ring Fighting
Andy WhaleyWC Future Olympics, Longship Battles
Chris WilsonTime Capsule, Snow Soccer
Dave MilonSnow Soccer
Doug WilsonTime Capsule, Squaw Point Erection
Jeff RandBlind Hike
John HoweyLongship Battles
Lou PezetHatchet Throwing
Mark Bollman-->WC Future Olympics, Casino Night
Mike HodnickiShield Construction
Paul KupserShield Construction, Raze the Village
Ron DonohueBattle Chess
Ryan BrakeHatchet Throwing
Sam StockerBattle Chess, Cross Country Golf, Oatley Ring Fighting
Sean GrayRaze the Village
Steve ClarkViking Explorers, Blind Hike, King’s Table, Casino Night, Squaw Point Erection
Steve DonohueViking Explorers, King’s Table
Tim HuntCross Country Golf

On Thursday, 13-Dec-01 01:12:44 EST, Steve D. said
The Menu has been updated to show what we're eating for everything except the 162 which ia both still in progress and intended to be somewhat surprising.

On Thursday, 06-Dec-01 02:40:56 EST, Steve D. said
Strangely enough, I bumped into Staff Adviser and 2001 Robert Rutherford Recipient Dave Morosky at the dinner last night. I spoke with him briefly and he said there would be no problem with us working on Friday. He asked a couple of questions about our use of the dining hall that led me to believe he didn't really want us in there cooking all day, but he did say we could use the kitchen to warm things and use the main hall for our 162 Dish Banquet. Luckily, another of our 2001 Rutherford winners, John Primrose, was distracted at the time and didn't get a chance to veto Dave's decision (not that I think he would).

On Sunday, 02-Dec-01 19:14:12 EST, Jeff said
I have developed a souvenir for Winter Camp to be worn at the banquet. I'll have enough kits for each Winter Camper.

I've also do some work on cloth napkins. Regular ones are $2.00 each and there are some fancy ones for $2.50.

On Sunday, 02-Dec-01 19:12:23 EST, Jeff said
I am curious about the future society dues. Were we to spend it on WC XXV? Perhaps it can offset the cost of the dining hall if necessary.

On Sunday, 02-Dec-01 13:44:40 EST, Mark--> said
Acronyms can be initials--for all they know (or would care to ask about), it could be a rock named in memory of Charles A. Grant.

On Friday, 30-Nov-01 20:28:12 EST, Steve D. said
But they'd take CAG Rock?

On Friday, 30-Nov-01 18:17:47 EST, Jeff said
It would be interesting to name a feature and inform the USGS so that it can be printed on the next map. Unfortunately, they won't accept "Squaw Point" because it is not politically correct.

On Friday, 30-Nov-01 17:59:04 EST, Steve Clark said
The other thing I think we need to do is to not tell anyone about it who didn't go to wintercamp, that way the signs have the best chance of staying up.

On Friday, 30-Nov-01 17:55:19 EST, Steve Clark said
I for one would like to try and fake folks out...since I camp there a lot it would be cool if someday someone says I'll meet you at Squaw point. If we try and fake them out they might leave the signs up which I think is the ultimate goal:)

On Friday, 30-Nov-01 14:23:42 EST, Steve D. said
I think for Squaw Point we have to decide if we want people to fall for the signs or not. It's one thing to name something "The Face", quite another to call it "The Path to Valhalla" or whatever. If our goal is to fake people out, we need camp sounding names.

On Friday, 30-Nov-01 13:23:42 EST, Jeff said
Looking at the survey results it would appear that we don't need another cabin. Based upon the percentages the majority of the Winter Campers should sleep outside. Each adult should spend 3 nights out, goons 2 nights, and youth 2 nights.

On Friday, 30-Nov-01 12:22:38 EST, Steve Clark said
Here's how I think we should do this... From now til December 26th we all post our ideas at the suggestion place for points. On DEcember 27th before the hooters dinner about 5 ish. Everyone presents their ideas and we vote for the ones we like. Then we can make the signs throughout the week. That way they can look really good on Sunday for when we take them out. Do we hae a final design for these signs? Are we gonna have posts too, or nails or screws or hammers or what? Anyone have a preference?

On Friday, 30-Nov-01 08:29:17 EST, Ron Donohue said
I had some thoughts on this event. For example, we might commemorate the Basar Memorial Lightning Rod with a sign the indicated that "ON this spot, a flase prince was crowned". We might call that spot Isengard, in honor of Saruman's tower in the Lord of the Rings. We might mark the Cag Rock with the name Celebration Point, "here the ultimate evil was consaigned to his fate." The idea (as I saw it) would be to commemorate spots that are significant in Winter Camp history with mythical reference signs that would interest people in that history. I do not know if that is what others envisioned, as I was not at the meeting, but my reading is as suggested above. Old Faceful might be commemorated as "EarthSpring" where the earth power wells up from the depths." A beach that was to hot because it was in the sun all day long might be commemorated with a sign identifying Milton's Lake of Fire, where the evil was cast. Beaver Creek or Clearwater might be Hero's Rest. The dining hall might be Valhalla, where the great feast occurs. You get the idea. We make it up when we get to camp. Any thoughts?

On Thursday, 29-Nov-01 17:54:34 EST, Steve Clark said
Even though I guess I am the youth incharge of this event I am not really sure about the points. I thought the point was to just put up some signs around camp naming stuff that isn't named but that we think would be cool to name. Thus I think we need ppl to think of places we want to name and suggest some names and the ones we like we can do.

On Thursday, 29-Nov-01 15:30:14 EST, Mike Hodnicki said
Steve I was just looking at the schedule and sunday is listed as the 30th and the 31st.

On Thursday, 29-Nov-01 14:16:18 EST, Steve D. said
Well, playtesting revealed a lot of stuff. Like the lack of starting conditions, the way too limiting need for trade goods, too much record-keeping, too many terrains, too many variables and a few others. I'm not sure when (or if) there'll be a next playtest. I think the Ragnarok card is coming out for sure. (Lou is a jerk).
Thanks to Lou, Tim, and Joe for their help with the playtesting.

On Monday, 26-Nov-01 19:30:18 EST, Steve D. said
So where is Squaw Point? What other places of interest should be noted? I heard Cag Rock at the meeting. Will there be explanations of these points (maybe woodburned below the sign or something)?

On Monday, 26-Nov-01 12:54:24 EST, Steve D. said
I'm with Paul on the uniform thing.

On Sunday, 25-Nov-01 22:04:41 EST, Paul K said
I think that it would be cool if all individuals at camp attending the 162 course meal would be dressed in a scout uniform.

On Sunday, 25-Nov-01 20:22:18 EST, Steve D. said
This Wednesday I'd like to have a few people on hand to playtest the Viking Explorers rules. Playtesting means we're going to try to play the game and look for things that suck, are hard to understand, or could be improved. There will likely be a few non-campers on hand, so if you've ever wanted to meet some of my even weirder friends, this is probably as good a chance as any <g>

On Sunday, 25-Nov-01 20:05:30 EST, Steve D. said
Just a little FYI for those who attended Friday's meeting: putting your used gum in a serving bowl is not on the best behavior list. In the future, if you can't see the trash, just ask, it'd be much easier for me to answer that question than it was to chip the gum out of the bowl.

On Friday, 23-Nov-01 12:24:18 EST, Dave said
The goons all have cellphones, lol....

On Thursday, 22-Nov-01 09:23:36 EST, John said
Well after several hours of researching FRS Radios (Family Radio Service), they probably fit the bill. There are several models available from the 9.99 Uniden (Planning day sale) basic model to the $125 Motorola with sub codes, altimiter, temperature and other assorted goodies..(hmm elevation hike?). There are also FRS base stations ($20-$40) that plug into the wall (Is this what you are looking at Paul?). I did look at the next step up from the FRS radios, some GMRS or something, which the claim is 5 mile range vs. 2 miles, but they tend to cost about $40+ a unit and you need a $45 self license from the FCC.. Probably most people have some FRS Radios (interestingly I don't think any of the goons do...) and there would at least be some available, or perhaps a few will be acquired by then...

On Monday, 19-Nov-01 02:14:31 EST, Paul K said
I bought three of the units and have tried them. They work great and they will work with family radios. I was able to get a signal from the unit to my hand held family radio at 1 mile. From unit to unit I was able to get a clear signal from a half mile. With little interferance. They are set to Channel 12 with no sub codes. I'll bring one to the planning meeting. If individuals were able to bring their own hand held family radio units to Wintercamp that would also be great.

On Sunday, 18-Nov-01 12:41:47 EST, Steve D said
I bought a pair of the intercoms that work over transformers. They claim the stuff is much better than it used to be, so we'll see. Worst case is they'll go from BC to Clearwater I guess.

On Sunday, 18-Nov-01 11:46:55 EST, Dave said
John & I have spent some time researching the FRS radios--we may have something as well soon that will function for all of the cabins...at a cost hopefully not to be too excessive.

On Friday, 16-Nov-01 20:52:35 EST, Paul Kupser said
I plan to buy the units to see if they work or not there is a 90 day guarantte on them unless I pay an additional and 25.00 each for the 3 year extended warranty. I'll bring them to the planning meeting so that you will have the idea of what I've been learning. I also plann on testing them out to seen if they will fit our needs if not then I'll return them. Any more questions or comments on this.

On Wednesday, 14-Nov-01 04:28:25 EST, Paul Kupser said
I don't think that these are that kind since they use a selectable frequency they seem to only get their power from an A.C. outlet and use radio waves in the transmitting of signals. My uncle has the kind that send signals through the same transformer and these are not like that. I'll research it more to be sure though.

On Tuesday, 13-Nov-01 19:34:18 EST, Steve D. said
The tricky part is that those rely on both outlets being serviced by the same transformer and I'm not sure if all three of our cabins are. We did have some problems with noisy lines (from our own computers most likely), but we have a lot fewer computers now, so that may not be an issue. At the very least, the lack of Model I's may prove useful in reducing noise <g>.

On Tuesday, 13-Nov-01 19:27:38 EST, Jeff said
Mike Osvath used to bring intercom telephones, which proved quite handy. I suspect with the distance to Midway (800 ft from BC Building) these units may be valuable.

On Tuesday, 13-Nov-01 15:17:22 EST, Paul Kupser said
Sorry I meant that we have used the hand held units not the base units. Also there is only about 500 feet to Midway cabin. Along with no leaves on the trees.

On Tuesday, 13-Nov-01 15:12:31 EST, Paul Kupser said
The troop and I have used them at camp before along with the chapter at the Spring conclave. The range is about 2 miles for the hand held units, I would only guess that the base units are about the same. The bigger hills do disrupt the signal quiet a bit but the smaller ones between the cabin shouldn't. I was thinkings of just buying the three and see if they work at camp if not I'll take them back.

On Tuesday, 13-Nov-01 11:39:15 EST, John said
What's the range on those? Aren't they like 1-2 miles? Did anyone use any of those handhelds at camp, what kind of range did they get? Things like hills and trees tend to degrade the signal quickly..

On Monday, 12-Nov-01 17:31:45 EST, Paul Kupser said
I found some long range intercom system at radio shack (21-1845) they are normaly $69.99 each but they are on sale for $49.99 until the 21st of the month. The sales person said that they are just like the handheld family radios with about the same range. They plug into an outlet and can beleft on contiuously if need be. So what is the thought on buying three one for each cabin, they can also be used at conclaves.

On Sunday, 11-Nov-01 23:14:19 EST, Steve D. said
Pre-planning meeting was held today. The minutes are shown in the link above under "Pre-Planning Meeting".

On Thursday, 01-Nov-01 13:51:53 EST, Steve D. said
The preplanning meeting will be next Sunday, November 11th starting at 2:00 pm.

On Thursday, 01-Nov-01 13:18:18 EST, Tom said
Just like the old days....starting at 1pm and ending somewhere around 3am....I like it!

On Wednesday, 31-Oct-01 15:34:57 EST, John said
Are we going to have a pre-planning meeting? Or is our pre-planning just done here...would that be virtual pre-planning. Of course I have an original thought for an idea: We could just have a marathon session at the regular planning meeting...

On Monday, 29-Oct-01 12:38:56 EST, Tom said
I'm all for burning stuff.

On Sunday, 28-Oct-01 18:54:03 EST, Paul said
We will have to see what is going to be planned at Steve's before camp. That way we can OK it with Andy before we step on any toes and burn stuff.

On Sunday, 28-Oct-01 13:21:03 EST, Dave said
Longbows man, longbows. I wanna make sure I can shoot the retreating Vikings for a long time.

On Saturday, 27-Oct-01 19:46:42 EDT, Paul Kupser said
Just let me know how many torches and or flaming arrows you would like to have. I only have two bows recurve but I could get two more.

On Saturday, 27-Oct-01 11:52:21 EDT, Dave said
I'd like nothin better than to kick some invading Viking arse. I bloody well think we could make a go of the movie.

On Thursday, 25-Oct-01 09:52:22 EDT, Steve Clark said
We should have catapualts too!!!

On Thursday, 25-Oct-01 03:38:24 EDT, Steve D. said
Sling shot would be cool as the kids in the englih village fights back against the cruel vikings come to maraud their people...

On Wednesday, 24-Oct-01 23:13:39 EDT, Steve Clark said
I think we should have a sling shot contest. Also, a punt, pass kick contest (prizes divied out by age groups, youth, 18-21, and adults)

On Wednesday, 24-Oct-01 16:20:53 EDT, Lou said
I have to admit it was a lot of fun throwing those torches. I would like to see the Viking them done again but I am NOT drinking well water.

On Wednesday, 24-Oct-01 15:09:11 EDT, Steve D. said
Well, my "big" idea is to try and shoot a movie again. I know that's old, but it could still be fun. I have to admit it all comes from the fun of watching Paul's torches whip through the air on their way to the lake at the Ordeal. I know that's a pretty lame inspiration for a whole winter camp, but there've probably been lamer inspirations for successful activities in the past.
My idea is that we shoot a movie about a viking invasion. The whole week could really have one or two activities that are part of the movie each day. A viking feast, some games of chance, etc. The rest of the week we would have "regular" activities of any sort. I think the village clout shoot/torch toss would be very cool and a lot of fun.
As far as rehash, one of the things to remember is that there are always a lot of new people and none of the activities is going to be old to them.

On Wednesday, 24-Oct-01 14:08:34 EDT, Steve Clark said
Honestly, I don't think we have much in the way of new ideas for events right now (at least that I know of) so I am pretty sure we will repeat some events. However, I think our time might be better spent if people try and think of some new events they would like to try. (Since it is fairly easy to rehash older events since they have been already thought of)

On Wednesday, 24-Oct-01 13:56:31 EDT, Paul Kupser said
If everyone was to bring a dessert or two, or chips that they liked from home, than that would increase the number of dishes and also cut down the cost. Along with if there was any of these kinds of dishes left over than they would be eaten and not wasted. Hopefully that there will not be any repeats of desserts.

On Wednesday, 24-Oct-01 11:48:40 EDT, Steve D. said
We could just schedule a blind hike, then we'd have done one event from each Winter Camp...

On Wednesday, 24-Oct-01 11:01:01 EDT, Old Fart said
You know, back in my day....

On Wednesday, 24-Oct-01 09:41:30 EDT, Tom said
Quit being such a wimp. Actaully my original thought was to lump a handful of old WC's together a day so day one would have stuff about WC I-IV or V and so on and so on. But that's just an idea.

On Wednesday, 24-Oct-01 00:51:26 EDT, Jeff said
48 Events sounds like a lot!

On Tuesday, 23-Oct-01 09:41:54 EDT, Tom said
I agree, I don't think the entire week of activities need to be something from the past events, I was thinking more along the lines of one or two events from each year. The question I have about the banquet, are we going to invite family or is this a private affair? I mean for the 20th we had family up, are we planning on something that big again or no?

On Monday, 22-Oct-01 21:07:36 EDT, Jeff said
Banquet: One of the things we did for the 100-dish banquet was ask each camper to bring something from home. It saved time at camp and expense. This might work again.
Historical Events: It is a good thought to bring back a coouple of past events, but I wouldn't want to overdo it. We need to do a couple of new things so that we will have historical events for WC 50.

On Monday, 22-Oct-01 13:25:59 EDT, Tom said
I'm still up for having events from the previous Winter Camps. Not ones we do either every year or every couple years, I think it would be cool to get some events from each Winter Camp that were really good, but we never did them again. I also think it would be nice to do a retrospect of the previous 24 Winter Camps, I'm sure some of the new kids would love to hear stories or know more about the History.

On Sunday, 21-Oct-01 11:00:27 EDT, Steve D. said
Maybe a little, but not much - more likely we'll be spending less time preparing them so we have time for the banquet. We had a surplus last year and that seems likely to repeat, so we could have spent a little more money. The likelihood is that the WCFS (and its members) will pick up some of the extra cost of the meal since this is a 5 and they do have some funds set aside for that exact purpose. My guess is that we'll sacrifice some prep-time. We may also change some menus so we don't have the same thing twice?

On Sunday, 21-Oct-01 10:27:25 EDT, Steve Clark said
Just curious, will we have to sacrifice quality of the otehr meals during the week to afford the 162 banquet???

On Saturday, 20-Oct-01 22:36:56 EDT, Steve D. said
Just so more avenues are reached - there is no pre-planning meeting this Sunday. It will be rescheduled and I'm not sure for when yet.

On Saturday, 20-Oct-01 18:30:00 EDT, Steve D. said
I've come to think this is a cool idea too, especially if we plan the menu so that lots of things don't have to be cooked the day of the event. There are two keys here, one would be to include a number of box/bag/jar/can to serving dish foods. Another would be to include items that can be cooked earlier in the week and held for Saturday.
It would certainly be a memorable thing to have eaten a meal with 162 different dishes - probably not something any of us has ever done before and maybe not something that we'd do again for a long time after.
What could be better than that on a camping trip? A new experience that isn't likely to be duplicated in your lifetime? (Seriously, how often do you think you'll hang out with people stupid [err, interesting] enough to serve 162 dishes for one meal?

On Thursday, 18-Oct-01 18:18:25 EDT, Jeff said
I'm still interested in having a 162 dish banquet for Winter Camp 25. Perhaps it can be discussed at the pre-planning meeting.

On Thursday, 18-Oct-01 12:53:48 EDT, Steve D. said
The pre-planning meeting has become sort of the audition grounds as much as anything else. Some general decisions about cost and whatnot are made, but mostly we pick out a handful of candidate ideas for later development. This year, if we plan to do anything about 25, we'll definitely have to get started at the pre-planning meeting. Other than that, what we've been doing is sending people with decent ideas out to do more work on them.

On Thursday, 18-Oct-01 12:48:24 EDT, Tom said
But my question still wasn't answered :(

On Tuesday, 16-Oct-01 15:43:11 EDT, Steve D. said
Pre-Planning Meeting is set for Sunday, October 21 at Steve's house (17612 Herrick St; Allen Park, MI). It starts at 2:00 and will go until 5:00 or so. Pizza may follow.

On Tuesday, 16-Oct-01 13:13:04 EDT, Paul Kupser said
What planning meeting are you talking about. Please E-mail me and let me know so that I might be able to attend.

On Tuesday, 16-Oct-01 10:32:04 EDT, Tom said
So with the pre-planning meeting coming up just days, are there any more thoughts or ideas? And what will happen at the pre-planning meeting? I can't make it Sunday but I would like to send some ideas ahead, and it will help knowing what will be handled that day as to what ideas I send a head and what ones can wait till I'm at the planning meeting.

On Wednesday, 03-Oct-01 22:04:37 EDT, Dave said
day 3 report: life is good. Berry berry good...

On Wednesday, 26-Sep-01 19:36:28 EDT, Dave said
Ron..actually good things are up. Somewhere in the neighborhood of Oct 1st, I'm going to become an Industrial Coating Specialist for Southeastern Michigan (Monroe cty line North to about 13 mile (n-s) and Lenawee Cty and Canada (w-e). Basically it's a glorified Sales Rep position with some additional benefits and responsibilities. So no more desk job for me =).

On Wednesday, 26-Sep-01 13:25:26 EDT, Steve D. said
Rumor has it that this year's Fellowship will boast a fuller schedule than most - certainly with our chapter hosting it, most of the Mahican guys will be busy. As a result, Andy has decided to hold the planning Meeting on Sunday, October 21 at 2:00 pm at Steve Donohue's house. Directions and an agenda will likely be posted shortly. This may be your only notice (but I doubt it).

On Wednesday, 26-Sep-01 09:47:21 EDT, Ron Donohue said
Dave, what's up, if you don't mind me asking?

On Tuesday, 25-Sep-01 16:00:26 EDT, Dave said
And as of October 1, 2001, I won't be in management any longer, anyway.

On Tuesday, 25-Sep-01 15:56:55 EDT, Dave said
Well, no Tom. I'm used to dishing tasks to people whom I employ. They make something nice out of it and give it back to me. That's management (ok, well, that's delegation). Changing the nifty smelling thing in the urinals or making sure there's TP in the stalls--that's a little more like the experience we need.

On Tuesday, 25-Sep-01 11:04:48 EDT, Tom said
Are you up for the job, Dave? I mean you're in management, you're used to handling crap.

On Sunday, 23-Sep-01 20:21:34 EDT, Dave said
Do we have an advisor who can monitor the youth's efforts in that endeavor? Make sure that it's handled properly?

On Thursday, 20-Sep-01 11:13:38 EDT, Tom said
It's the new scout in wintercamp. His job is to stand guard on the latrine and make sure only authorized personal enter the restricted area. And believe me, if we recreate the chili cook-off, it will be a restricted area requiring special suits.

On Thursday, 20-Sep-01 11:04:29 EDT, Goon Prime said
What is this latrine montior that you speak of? I have no recollection of those events.

On Thursday, 20-Sep-01 10:40:51 EDT, Tom said
That would be "young wintercampers" not "you wintercampers"

On Thursday, 20-Sep-01 10:31:30 EDT, Tom said
I have an idea for WCXXV. Since it is the 25th Winter Camp, why don't we on each day do stuff from the first 24 WC's? So on day one we do stuff that happened at WC 1-7, then day two WC 8-15, Day three WC 16-21, day four WC 22-24, day five go home (we do that every WC (g)).
Day three and four are shiftable, since one of those days we spend the morning and early afternoon doing a service project. Or we could break it up in any way we want. I just think it would be cool to go back and show the you wintercampers some of the stuff we used to do. We could even hook the latrine montior up to Clearwater or something. And aren't we do for a WC Olympics? What does everyone else think of this?

On Saturday, 15-Sep-01 08:45:53 EDT, sam stocker said
andy whaley is one happening guy and I'm sure he's going to do as an awesome job as youth leader of Winter Camp. Best of Luck to the planning committee and if you have never been to a winter camp you should go it's the experience of a lifetime.

On Wednesday, 05-Sep-01 20:38:49 EDT, Jeff said
I still have the Winter Camp vision described in the posting of June 9. I believe we should focus much energy on a grand event such as the one described, rather than a multitude of lessor events. Let the campers leave with a special memory unique to WC 25. Many of the other events and traditions can happen without this level of planning and still be successful.

On Friday, 31-Aug-01 13:48:42 EDT, Steve said
Okay, so as of today, Winter Camp XXV ends in four months. Anyone got any great ideas, grand schemes, or brilliant visions for it yet? It is our 25th Annual event (24th Anniversary). The Future Society has a few bucks to blow, but thus far, I haven't seen any sign that we're going to do it. Suggestions are, of course, welcome.

On Sunday, 10-Jun-01 21:38:42 EDT, Jeff said
Correct and that's 162 dishes, if my math is right.

On Sunday, 10-Jun-01 18:22:06 EDT, Steve D. said
I think he's offering a suggestion for how we might celebrate Winter Camp XXV this year.

On Sunday, 10-Jun-01 16:06:27 EDT, Steve Clark said
What are you talking about?

On Sunday, 10-Jun-01 16:05:06 EDT, said

On Saturday, 09-Jun-01 21:46:04 EDT, Jeff said
The campers and guests begin arriving mid afternoon on December 29, 2001. Wyckoff Lodge plays host to Winter Camp’s Silver Celebration. The Moose Peterson Lounge offers a complete bar serving a dozen different types of drinks. Munchies and later hors d’oeuvres are available in the lounge, offering 25 choices in all. After a bit of libation, guests might visit the museum and history exhibit in the main room or participate in the carnival games on the porch and surrounding grounds.
Dinner begins promptly at 6:46 p.m., when all are seated around the parallelogram in the center of the main room. Most of the participants first visit the bakeshop where 50 different breads, pastries, and desserts are offered. Each Winter Camper contributed a different item. Some were made the day before, and others are fresh from the oven. Friendly bakers staff this area in the northwest corner of the room.

Along the north wall one finds the side dish cafe. Fifty salads, soups, and other dishes are displayed along the wall in a horizontal arrangement. Special racks with candles protrude from the wall. As with the bakeshop, each Winter Camper contributed a dish.

Twenty-five entrees are featured under a canopy in the Northeast corner. Here carving chefs help serve meats representing an impressive number of animal species.

The dinner crew provides an elegant program, as everyone finishes the meal and wipes their face on cloth napkins coordinated with the table linens. A photo session is held briefly after dinner.

The group moves to the chairs near the southern end of the room. All enjoy the multimedia evening show, reminiscent of a National Conference. Live actors portray moments of Winter Camp history and more. After the show some guests and campers return to the Moose Peterson room for a bit of relaxation.

The highlight and grand finale of the day’s events is by invitation only. The cleanup extravaganza is an epic experience for those lucky enough to participate. It is as if the rest of life was prologue to this occasion.


On Friday, 11-May-01 21:20:16 EDT, Jeff said
According to the USGS the following elevations have been determined in the Winter Camp domain:
BC Building: 970 ft.
Clearwater: 950
Clearwater Bridge: 940
Lang: 980
Lowest point on road to Highpoint: 935
Highpoint: 955
Ceremony Site (arrow tip): exactly 1000
Top of the site: 1060
Last Ceremony Site: 1155
Flint River: 885
I think we should survey and map the Winter Camp domain to get more accurate readings. It could be a great merit badge opportunity and with everything else we've done, it is most appropriate. I know a former Scoutmaster, who is a surveyor.

On Friday, 11-May-01 12:29:47 EDT, Tom said
Ohh the cookie's are working. But anyways..if memory serves me correctly the hill to Highpoint isn't as bad as to Midway.

On Thursday, 10-May-01 18:29:39 EDT, Steve D. said
High Point, as the name implies, is also up a hill.

On Thursday, 10-May-01 12:26:50 EDT, Tom said
What's wrong with my rationale? Lang is up a hill, even after you walk up the dam. Highpoint, ok it might be a little further to walk but it only has a light slope. I was just speaking out of pure laziness.

On Wednesday, 09-May-01 22:00:55 EDT, Steve D. said
Okay, we'll stick with Highpoint, although I admit to a little uncertainty regarding Tom's rationale.

On Wednesday, 09-May-01 20:39:58 EDT, Jeff said
Highpoint is 958 feet from the BC Building and Midway (Lang) is 779. However, the direct path to Midway goes through a wetland and thicket. I believe the hike to Highpoint is easier, especially at night.

On Wednesday, 09-May-01 16:55:18 EDT, John said
Either one is really too far...but there's not much else to do about that. I think Highpoint is probably better, the dam is awfully hard to climb/descend in the daylight...

On Wednesday, 09-May-01 16:43:23 EDT, Tom said
I don't know, I think we're ok with Highpoint as the extra cabin. While they're both about the same distance to walk, there's a lot less uphill slope to walk for Highpoint. Of course that could be the laziness in me talking.

On Wednesday, 9-May-01 11:27:16 EDT, Steve said
I reserved Beaver Creek, Clearwater and Highpoint cabins today. Any thoughts? We can still change for about a week before I have to send in a deposit. We could also consider reserving Midway/Lang instead of Highpoint or even as a "defensive" holding to ensure our space...

On Thursday, 26-Apr-01 18:14:12 EDT, Dave said
Perhaps Mr Rand could go up a couple of days early, acquire all the building materials he needs from the numerous picnic tables throughout camp and provide a cabin constructed solely of igloo blocks?
(Ok, probably a bad plan...especially from Mr Rand's perspective...)

On Wednesday, 25-Apr-01 22:25:05 EDT, Jeff said
With the tremendous growth in sleeping outside last year, perhaps two cabins will be sufficient.

On Wednesday, 25-Apr-01 17:15:49 EDT, Tom said
Cool, input from people. I'm just tossing out ideas here, all input is gladly accepted. And John I was just making an example, that's all.

On Wednesday, 25-Apr-01 12:27:16 EDT, Steve said
Speaking of last year, I'm going to be posting some updated financial info soon - the current cost doesn't include the program binders for new people, which need to be purchased from the Future Society.

On Wednesday, 25-Apr-01 12:26:16 EDT, Steve said
One part of the fix may be pretty easy - it's unlikely there will be as much snow this year as there was last year. I'm also not sure we'll need three cabins. If we do, maybe Midway/Lang would actually be a better choice for us?

On Wednesday, 25-Apr-01 10:26:16 EDT, John said
On the subject of cliques, I would take (mild) offense at "all the goons being in a team and not hanging with the new people."
As Steve said, there will be some natural cliques, as some of us (you included) tend to see each other often during the year. I think the idea of mixed teams helps, but I wouldn't want to keep the same teams all the time for the weekette.
Also, I think that the three cabin system last year tended to make the clique thing more pronounced, as it was a bit of a walk from highpoint to BC, especially in the snow...I am not sure how we would fix it without moving cabins (which just seems wrong)...

On Tuesday, 24-Apr-01 17:52:42 EDT, Steve D. said
Natural cliques tend to form based on shared interests. These teams wouldn't have that and it could really suck given the highly variable level of interest in activities displayed by some of our older campers, myself included. Basically, if you got on the wrong team, you could find yourself severely handicapped by having a very small gang that was actually active. If you leave it alone, those interested in official activities will get to know each other much better.

On Tuesday, 24-Apr-01 14:02:22 EDT, Tom said
Ahhh..but during meals, free time, service project, and games that only require two teams (such as snow soccer) will require all the teams to blend. I'm not saying that the team has to stay together for everything. I just thought it would be a nice way for people to get to know each other. That way the new guys get put with people who have been then for a while as opposed to like all the goons being in a team and not hanging with the new people. Sure it forms a clique, but we already have cliques there that have been around for years, and this kinda leaves the new kids who really don't have friends up there sitting on their bunk doing nothing.
I don't think you're wrong, we have a few months to iron this all out, I'm just throwing out ideas.

On Tuesday, 24-Apr-01 12:49:59 EDT, Lou said
The problem with keeping set teams during the week, is that your forming cliques. People will not want to associated with the other groups for fear of giving away some vital clue. I also think it will be hard to keep the "secret" throughout the entire weekette. Just my thoughts, I could be wrong.

On Tuesday, 24-Apr-01 10:25:13 EDT, Tom said
Ok so I think I have some more ideas here. It looks like we're going to need a couple of people to be "Clue Masters". They'll be one the ones setting up the clues, the murder weapon(s), the reason why it was done, and things along that line. They'll also be the ones to set up the final Murder Clue game on the last night. Most of our regular activities won't be a problem to run since we'll already be broken up into the Scooby Crews (CC Golf, 4-way Volleyball, CTO, etc.). I'm just trying to think of new activities that will fall under the murder/mystery category. I have a few in mind, but no solid rules or guidelines for them. Anyone else?

On Monday, 16-Apr-01 12:39:43 EDT, Tom said
Ok here's revision of my previous idea. I still think a Murder Mystery theme for the week, I think it will offer a nice cushion for ideas of new activities and add some fun twists for some old ones. Keep using the murder-clue-mystery idea but instead of having people die off during the game and working alone on things, we break up in to teams (Scooby Crews) and work to try and solve the mystery. We would generate the teams randomly on the first day and keep those teams during team sports (I think this will help everyone get to know each other). Everything will work towards the goal of getting clues or locations where clues are. This will all lead up to the big ole Murder-Clue game at the end of the week where all the answers will be revealed.

I have a few ideas on how to make it work, I'm just trying to sort through them so I can present the ones that make some sort of sense to someone who is not me. Anyone else have any ideas?


On Monday, 12-Feb-01 10:09:31 EST, Tom said
I would like to suggest an idea for the theme for WCXXV. I think a Murder Mystery week would be pretty fun. My thoughts are having a Murder Clue game that last the entire week. One by one Winter Campers start to die mysteriously, and it's our job to figure out who, why, maybe where. Maybe one way we can go about it is the old fashion murder mystery movies, everyone is together for a common reason(dinner part, etc.) and during that time people start disappearing, turning up dead. As the investigation progresses we find out these people have a secret, eventually it turns out everyone has a secret and they all in some way have a common link (ala the Clue movie). There are still some details to work out on the over all theme but there should be plenty of activities we could do based on this theme. Anyways..back to work...

On Monday, 12-Feb-01 09:51:52 EST, Tom said
I'm all for a single theme week this year. Maybe certain days can have their own sub-theme for the day, almost like last WC but instead of having Movie Week with Spy Day or Martix Day, you have Spy Week with the days having something to do with he different types of spy movies. While each day is different in some way they all have the same undertones to them. Might make planning a little easier since everything is coming from the same well.

On Wednesday, 03-Jan-01 22:10:34 EST, Steve D. said
Another thing we should consider is program budget. This year we have a profit of about $100, but we also had some large donations for (in particular) Real Genius day. It's likely that some of our other themes could also have benefited from a few dollars worth of budget. Maybe for next year we should plan about $25 a day for program costs. This wouldn't cover anything huge, but would probably have covered most of our days - anything one day didn't need, another day could have (so if we went to a single theme for the week, we'd have about $100 for program expenses for the theme).

On Wednesday, 03-Jan-01 10:58:57 EST, Ron Donohue said
I would be interested in fewer themes. I think it would allow for better focus and development of "special" events that really reflect the theme. I did not have any problem with this year's theme and the events, but it might be cool to have one or two special events on which to focus our planning energies and financial resources.

On Tuesday, 02-Jan-01 23:12:24 EST, Steve D. said
I'm going to go out on a limb with the suggestion that we have one theme for the week with one or two theme-related activities each day.

On Monday, 01-Jan-01 18:59:09 EST, Steve Clark said
I am excited about next year already...


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