Winter Camp XXVIII - 2004

Currently, we plan to have Winter Camp XXVIII and that's close to all we know other than the following:

You can now get the Registration Form for Winter Camp XXVIII

The schedule and menu are now available.

Feel free to post your thoughts and comments on planning for Winter Camp XXVIII!

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Check out what everyone else is saying:
E-mail addresses and names are not guaranteed to be who they say they are.
That being said, we should tell you that the webmaster can tell who said what.

On Thursday, 30-Dec-2004 14:46:31 EST, Dave said
Darn..and no Hooter's dinner =/

On Thursday, 30-Dec-2004 13:52:03 EST, Brittany said
I Love You Ricky Naida!!!! I want to come to winter camp thou...

On Tuesday, 28-Dec-2004 09:06:37 EST, said
How wintercamp lik..I woke up to a discovery channel special describing "where the animals go to drink...."

On Tuesday, 28-Dec-2004 01:34:20 EST, Dave said
This isn't the military...don't ask..don't tell...

On Tuesday, 28-Dec-2004 00:31:51 EST, said
Nope. We actually had quite a bit to do and managed to get most of it done. We didn't have time to fiddle with the computer right away.
Highlight of yesterday had to be the trip gto Greg's where Ron explained thaqt guys would order in pairs, kind of like couples, only not couples. Then he conitinued with except for those two and pointed at Paul and Mike. The waitress never missed a beat when she replied "We aren't here to judge".

On Sunday, 26-Dec-2004 22:40:29 EST, Dave said
No posts yet...Did everyone hurry up to setup and then fall asleep?

On Friday, 24-Dec-2004 20:44:31 EST, Steve said
No branding iron and no telegraph keys. I'm starting feel a little big bro.

On Friday, 24-Dec-2004 00:14:52 EST, Steve said
One bit of bad news - the branding iron has not yet arrived. Hopefully it will arrive tomorrow. If it doesn't we may be able to get Lou or Dave to bring it up if it arrives in time for one of them. Everybody cross your fingers.

On Thursday, 23-Dec-2004 23:48:50 EST, Steve said
I think this is the complete list:
Ankiel, Aaron
Brake, Eric
Church, Gabriel
Dietrick, Sam
Kurdunuwicz, Phil
McHugh, Scott
Morlock, Ethan
Murphy, Rob
Naida, Ricky
Omaits, Sean
Rein, Ethan
Schmaeman, Ross
Tamsen, Derek
Tilley, Lucas
White, Jamie
Williams, Aaron
Bollman, Mark
Donohue, Ron
Donohue, Steve
Hodnicki, Mike
King, Keith
Kupser, Paul
McHugh, Dennis
Omaits, Maurice
Rand, Jeff
Wilson, Doug
Part Time:
Draper, Gordon
Oakley, Dave
Pezet, Lou
26 full timers, 16 of whom are youth, 10 adults and 3 part-time adults.

On Thursday, 23-Dec-2004 00:52:09 EST, Steve said
Add Ethan Rein, Ethan Morlock, and Robby Murphy to our list. I think it's all worth it just to have two Ethan's.

On Tuesday, 21-Dec-2004 00:14:25 EST, Steve said
Add Aaron Ankiel and Ricky Naida to the list of those who are paid.

On Monday, 20-Dec-2004 17:54:56 EST, Kupser said
I also plan on being at the food shopping on the 24th. I have some bad news, last night Mike H. and I were trying to get the pop machine pressures correct and it sprung many leaks with one hell of a mess. Luckily we were only running water so it was not sticky just real wet. I learned today that the machine is a 70s style and that the o-rings are most likely bad. I called around to find o-rings and they can't get them until after winter camp. So unfortunatly there will not be a pop machine at camp. So we are back to cans for this year.

On Sunday, 19-Dec-2004 00:44:28 EST, Steve said
I hear Jeff does too.
Add Aaron Williams, Lucas Tilley, Ross Schmaeman, and Mike Hodnicki to our list. I think Aaron Ankiel better show up to since Aaron is counting on him for a ride <g>

On Saturday, 18-Dec-2004 14:48:16 EST, Mark--> said
I plan to be there to shop next Friday.

On Friday, 17-Dec-2004 19:05:08 EST, Steve said
I've received money from Mike Hodnicki and Derek Tamsen.
Who is planning on going on the shopping trip on the morning of 12/24?
Does anyone who lives locally have a freezer with space for 24# of Bison? Our bison is in at Gordon's.

On Tuesday, 14-Dec-2004 15:11:50 EST, Steve D. said
I guess the activity to fear is the murder game. Are there plans afoot on that? I had this thought that if we came up with the questionaire now I could put it on the web and let people answer in advance to speed the process.

On Tuesday, 14-Dec-2004 15:07:54 EST, Steve D. said
A number of additional people have turned up. I think the paid list is now:
Sam Dietrick
Sean Omaits
Scott McHugh
Eric Brake
Gabriel Church
Jamie White
Keith King
Dennis McHugh
Maurice Omaits
Mark Bollman
Ron Donohue
Steve Donohue
Paul Kupser
Jeff Rand
Doug Wilson
Dave Oakley (partial)
Gordon Draper (partial)
6 youth, 9 adults/2 partial. The lack of a chapter meeting this December may be a problem since it will make paying a little more complex, but I'm sure we'll work something out.

On Monday, 13-Dec-2004 18:31:24 EST, Steve said
I received a largish box of cowboy stuff today.

On Sunday, 12-Dec-2004 20:56:25 EST, Jeff said
I have some ideas regarding the first day.
Westward Trek:
Teams for trek could involve four families making the trip west. Here are some ideas:
“Yoders” - A group of pacifists that want to stick to the old ways.
“Smiths” - This family follows the Biblical teaching “Be fruitful and multiply.”
“Oakleys” - This lawless bunch is out to exploit the west.
“Carsons” - These are the explorers.
Besides participating in the first-day trek, the families could be assigned the special projects later in the weekette. For example, the Yoders could be responsible for decorating BC, the Oakleys could decorate the Clearwater Saloon, the Smiths could string the telegraph wire, and the Carsons could retrieve the time capsule. In addition, each family could be responsible for producing an issue of the newspaper.
Monday Lunch:
“North American Aboriginal Meal:” Bison meat cooked with onions, zucchini, and squash. It could be served over a hard biscuit. Meal could also include corn.

On Thursday, 09-Dec-2004 13:35:47 EST, David C. Oakley - "Oak" said
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Ha -
I am planning on WED & THUR. - my wife is working Mon. and
Tuesday and I have an event on Friday - midday. Would $21.21 for 2 days work for the food budget planning??\
Let me know - thanks. Believe me, I am bummed out on missing the service project. I can drive a couple youth back Friday morning if that is necessary. I do have the
CURLING STONES - FIT that in somewhere!! hobby draw rules!
Happy Holidays - "Oak". sent 12-9-2004.

On Thursday, 09-Dec-2004 12:43:12 EST, Ron Donohue said
By the way, if you are considering missing camp due to financial limitations, please contact me via email, as I understand some camperships are available.

On Thursday, 09-Dec-2004 12:40:02 EST, Ron Donohue said
I got my plane tickets and a rental car, so I am ready to go. I am looking forward to camp, having successfully completed my hobby from last year (probably a first for me)Hopefully, others will chime in and let you know we are going. BTW for those who have not had it, bison is pretty good eatin'.

On Thursday, 09-Dec-2004 10:28:19 EST, Steve D. said
I ordered 3 dozen cowboy hats and an inflatable cactus from Oriental Trading.
I ordered the branding iron, which will say
Winter Camp
The limit was 20 characters per line. I also ordered the "date kit" so we can add the year.
I ordered 24# of Bison from GFS. It will be available next Friday. It was much cheaper than any of the internet outlets we found at only 3.90 a pound. I don't think we need 24# for sloppy joes, but I had to order in 12# increments and thought it was better to have too much - we can just replace some ground beef somewhere else (Mexican meal?) with bison I guess.

On Sunday, 05-Dec-2004 19:45:39 EST, Jeff said
I did some investigating on cow chip tossing. Regulation cow chips must be at least 6 inches in diameter. This afternoon I examined several local cow chip depositories. Most were too wet and fresh. The one ranch where I noticed some suitable samples was heavily guarded by two burley canines.

On Sunday, 05-Dec-2004 10:00:14 EST, Jeff said
Some additional activity notes:

Western Trek: I don't think pulling a wagon is that difficult. It mostly about friction. On hard level ground, it should be quite easy. On a hill it will be a bit more difficult. The steepest hill on the trip is about a 10% incline. (I have notes indicating the road from Beaver Lake to Cow Camp is 13.3% as an example.) If you haul 2,000 lbs, it would be like lifting 200. In terms of horsepower, if you pull the wagon 2 1/2 feet in one second (about 2 MPH) you will be exerting about one horsepower. A strong man can exert 1/3 horsepower or more. If the roads are muddy all bets are off.

Trek Challenge: The last activity could be the Donner Pass Survival Test. This event is in the vain of any number of group survival execises, where individuals and the group decide what items most important to take into a specific survival situation. With the exection of the necrophagous individuals, most members of the Donner party made the wrong decision.

Pony Express: The Pony Express could involve three competitive teams charged with moving a 25 lb bag of mail along the route from Fort BC back to Independence. The chair of the event could establish 10 different legs of varying distances and challenge along the route. The teams will be able to determine the best use of their manpower in terms of strength and speed for the various legs.

On Sunday, 05-Dec-2004 09:55:37 EST, Jeff said
How about replacing the Anti-O Snack with the Westward HO Snack. It could feature four unique items acquired on a journey through Illinois, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas.

On Thursday, 02-Dec-2004 21:50:18 EST, Steve said
So for those who haven't looked yet, the menu is pretty devoid of any new meals (well, there are NO new meals, not even in name). I think that would be a pretty poor decision on our part (it also would not bode well for the historic banquet).
I think we need a new meal in there somewhere. If I were to target one of the current ones for replacment, I think it would be either the Barbecue Dinner or the Anti-Obedience Snack. I don't know what I'd replace them with but maybe somebody else has a good idea for a dinner or a snack? It doesn't have to be western.

On Thursday, 02-Dec-2004 21:49:56 EST, Steve said
4 Way volleyball should also be covered from an equipment standpoint.

On Thursday, 02-Dec-2004 19:47:55 EST, Steve said
I have it on good authority that two telegraph kits with a proven single-wire range of over 1 mile will be at Winter Camp this year.
What I don't know is how big the single wire has to be. When I do, I'll share the info.

On Thursday, 02-Dec-2004 19:45:36 EST, Steve said
Perhaps the wagon could be stolen by a roving outlaw gang who are, in turn, killed by rampaging indians shortly after they get back to their hideout near the runoff from the home of the world's largest beaver.

On Thursday, 02-Dec-2004 18:26:59 EST, Dave said
Jeff can convince the wintercampers who are 8 or under to act as beasts of burden. Or perhaps you could make a wager with Dr. Beast, who has much experience of late, with walking long distances.

On Thursday, 02-Dec-2004 00:41:53 EST, Ethan said
We have got the OK from Camp Ranger Dave Morosky to borrow the wagon used on the Yucca Trail for Winter Camp. they pull it with a tractor, so I don't konw how we'll do it.

On Wednesday, 01-Dec-2004 12:40:44 EST, Ethan said
As Winter Camp's Wagon Master, (activity coordinator), I'm looking folks to sign up to lead individual games or events. check the schedule, and let me know if there is something with which you'd like to help. it counts towards the participation award.

On Friday, 26-Nov-2004 15:41:35 EST, said

On Friday, 26-Nov-2004 15:30:29 EST, Onsite Observer said
Voting was completed for meals.

On Friday, 26-Nov-2004 13:34:05 EST, Onsite Reporter said
Mr Donohue completed reading the Activities List. He appeared to need a rest afterwards.

On Friday, 26-Nov-2004 13:29:44 EST, Onsite Reporter said
Western was chosen as the theme for the week. It was noted that the Dumai preferred Blind & Backward events. Mr. Donohue read the activities list. Some were chosen, some were not.

On Friday, 26-Nov-2004 13:17:33 EST, Onsite Reporter said
11/26/04 1:17 pm Scott McHugh asked a lot of questions. Kristie drove Daves car to get the evil Sid.

On Tuesday, 23-Nov-2004 22:10:00 EST, Jamie said
I'm going to have to come up on monday night or tuesday :( and i will be working this friday so i can't come to the planning meeting:(

On Monday, 22-Nov-2004 16:25:35 EST, said
Lordy, Lordy, double d 40. Hmm...Double D 40 ranch might go with a western theme

On Monday, 22-Nov-2004 10:06:20 EST, leader said
The 2003 movie of winter camp was terrible. It didn't tell me what winter camp was at all.

On Friday, 19-Nov-2004 15:56:08 EST, Kupser said
Here are some more things that we could have : minning for gold, gammbeling at a tavern, a jail with a sheriff, the out house, a brothel, the tent of peace and harmony, exploration of the land, general store, outpost, pony express, telegragh lines, train robbery, masks, badges, draws of the fastest gun. And yet there is still more to come.

On Tuesday, 16-Nov-2004 18:49:49 EST, Kupser said
I like the idea of the cowboy theme for the potential of having a torch lite parade down main street. The possibality of lynching someone for their wrong doings, and for the need of (cap) guns to set the weekette in the era. Bank robberies, Stage coaches, bandits, a cattle drive. Since we are at the ranch maybe we can play with the horses too. I see the huge potential to expand even more. There was a lot of things in the old West that we can get ideas from.

On Thursday, 11-Nov-2004 15:55:10 EST, K2 said
I would have been there Sunday but I was in Ann Arbor for an IGDA meeting with my Senior Project Group from 12-5pm.
And I don't even get off work... wait 26th. Isn't that thanksgiving break??
If I have that day off work I'll be there for sure. If not, I won't be able to even leave work until 5pm and it takes roughly an hour or so to get to Allen Park from Wixom. So the earliest I could be there is 6pm.
In other words, I will be unable to attend the next meeting unless we modify the time to later in the evening on that Friday or sometime that weekend.

On Sunday, 07-Nov-2004 19:17:07 EST, Steve said
It appears I was right to be nervous. At the risk of enraging/engaging Big Bro, I have to say I was disappointed that the meeting was attended by only the three people mentioned below. Hopefully things will pick up for the next meeting and for camp itself.

On Saturday, 06-Nov-2004 23:10:04 EST, Steve said
Thus far I've heard that Ricky, Paul, and I will be in attendance. Doug Wilson and Mark Bollman have said they aren't coming.
Does anyone else have anything to say about attending tomorrow? I have to admit I'm a little nervous about the relative silence.

On Tuesday, 02-Nov-2004 09:24:32 EST, Steve said
There is one for Sunday - November 7, 2004 at 1:00pm. It will be at Paul Kupser's house: 25966 Matilda; Flat Rock, MI.
There will be a second one on Friday, November 26 at 1:00pm. That one is currently schedule for Steve Donohue's house: 17612 Herrick; Allen Park, MI

On Monday, 01-Nov-2004 18:35:41 EST, said
I would hope one is planned for November 26th?

On Sunday, 31-Oct-2004 20:05:24 EST, Jeff said
I was wondering if there are any planning meetings scheduled.

On Wednesday, 13-Oct-2004 23:47:48 EDT, Steve said
The 70's would be pretty easy, especially with that 70's show. Maybe we could also pick out things that lasted 27 days or years or are also related to the number 27 (or 28). 28 days later? Lunar months? Maybe the 27th song someone wrote?
Pick the 27th word on the 28th page of book and make an activity of it... I picked up a book and the word I got was "the". We could do an activity like the old blah ceremony where every time you said "the" you had to add 27 or endure 28 punishments?

On Wednesday, 13-Oct-2004 21:25:45 EDT, Jeff said
There will always be detractors. Winter Camp would not have continued without trying new ideas. Ethan, I think your enthusiam is welcomed by most. Actually, Winter Camp will only be 27 years old, unless you move to the Orient where it will be 29 on January 1. Twenty-seven years ago Stars Wars came out.

On Wednesday, 13-Oct-2004 00:34:48 EDT, Ethan said
As some of you may know, I like to have ideas, and people usually shoot them down, but I keep trying. So, this Sunday, I'm going to propose a theme of 'things that are 90 years old' (like the order of the arrow) for the next section conclave to the Council of Chiefs. I think a similar theme of 'things that are 28 years old' might be something with which we could work for Winter Camp XVIII. also, please don't forget to register for the Lodge Vigil Breakfast if you are planning to attend.

On Sunday, 10-Oct-2004 19:52:22 EDT, John said
Sounds like an anti-perimeter hike...

On Thursday, 07-Oct-2004 04:51:39 EDT, Ethan said
I think a fun all day activity would be some sort of walk around d-a game, like to visit certain things and the camp is big enough that we could have it be a competition, like involving visiting each campsite in a sub camp in a certain amount of time. I like going all over camp, and I think that lends itself to a big time theme day activity

On Thursday, 07-Oct-2004 04:51:39 EDT, Ethan said
I think a fun all day activity would be some sort of walk around d-a game, like to visit certain things and the camp is big enough that we could have it be a competition, like involving visiting each campsite in a sub camp in a certain amount of time. I like going all over camp, and I think that lends itself to a big time theme day activity

On Thursday, 02-Sep-2004 19:45:04 EDT, Dave said
::thinks:: We could make Crop Circles?

On Wednesday, 01-Sep-2004 19:27:09 EDT, Jeff said
Well, I wouldn't mind spending two weeks at Winter Camp. As the 90 degree weather causes one to have thoughts of such, I think we should consider having the first full day of Winter Camp as theme day. It should be marked by a significant new activity of several hours duration. Depending upon attendance, it should involve about 4 teams to create patrol-sized groups. The new activity should be the subject of advance planning to create something of signicance to both old and new participants. I don't think we have to spend our energies trying to develop many new events for Winter Camp (most of which don't happen), but could focus on this larger project.

On Monday, 23-Aug-2004 18:11:52 EDT, Dave said
Hmm...charge em $75.75 and put on a program?

On Monday, 23-Aug-2004 16:00:58 EDT, PRINCE OPOKU AGYEMANG said

On Monday, 23-Aug-2004 16:00:58 EDT, PRINCE OPOKU AGYEMANG said

On Monday, 23-Aug-2004 16:00:58 EDT, PRINCE OPOKU AGYEMANG said

On Tuesday, 11-May-2004 15:23:48 EDT, Steve D. said
I made the cabin reservations today. Prices have increased again. Beaver Creek was $264 and High Point & Clearwater were $120 each. I know we may not use High Point, but we might and it'll be easy enough to get our money back with 30 days notice.

On Friday, 07-May-2004 15:15:51 EDT, ethan said
I started my hobby today, and I can't tell you what the thing that I will be buying at each GFS I visit, but I can say there's going to be a lot of it, and that we can use it at camp. I think the hobby demo should be early in the week, so I can unload this stuff.

On Thursday, 06-May-2004 10:20:39 EDT, Steve D. said
I'd like to see a zombies theme at camp. Survival activities, a movie, boardgames, etc.

On Wednesday, 07-Apr-2004 14:27:09 EDT, Steve D. said
Aren't you whining about someone else's alleged whining? Of course, maybe I am too now.
I'd like to see a zombies theme at camp. Survival activities, a movie, boardgames, etc.

On Tuesday, 06-Apr-2004 22:10:54 EDT, said
Yes Bro it is. It may be that we need to whine less and think more.

On Tuesday, 06-Apr-2004 13:26:49 EDT, Kupser said
I see that this area is still slow during this part of the year.

On Sunday, 29-Feb-2004 19:24:23 EST, Jeff said
Lou, you should be happy that you live on the other side of the pop/soda line. The parts of the country that refer to soft drinks as soda do not have the same values as the "pop" region.

On Thursday, 19-Feb-2004 19:11:45 EST, Lou said
Paul please use the correct term "soda". I know not what this pop stuff is unless you are speaking of those rotgut Coke products.

On Wednesday, 11-Feb-2004 16:20:58 EST, Dave said
I started editing..then stopped, then started day when I have time ( that'll happen) I'll try to put it together better.

On Wednesday, 11-Feb-2004 10:18:03 EST, Ricky said
I just wanted to let everybody know what's going on with the WCVII Movie. Steve gave me a disc witht he movie file, but I can't get the file to play on my computer or any other computer. So as soo as I get a playable file, then I'll start editing.

On Monday, 09-Feb-2004 22:53:11 EST, Kupser said
Hello to all. More improvements to the beverage distribution center. I have recently purchased a fountain pop machine off Brake's friend. I will continue to work on getting the thing working for Winter Camp XXVIII. But there is always a bad to the good. It will cool the pop as it is dispensed and this is good but the bad part is that it only has 5 selections for pop. Each selection with the correct setting has the potential for 25 gallons each, for a total quantity of 125 Gallons of pop. I have found a place that has all the parts that I need if I need any. And I have found a place that will sell the Syurpe to me. There is a large selection of flavors but no Pepsi products only Coke products and their own. But I will continue to look for Pepsi so we have the entire selection to chose from. So again I will be asking the question what type of pop would we like at Winter Camp once I have more information.

On Friday, 30-Jan-2004 20:51:09 EST, Dave said
(I usually do anyway....)

On Friday, 30-Jan-2004 16:46:20 EST, John said
I say we ignore the clock altogether. I noticed Jeff, slipped into is big bro persona for a moment.

On Friday, 30-Jan-2004 15:08:48 EST, Dave said
LOL...some of us who start before 6:30am the other 51 weeks of the year kind of enjoy the laid back (sometimes that means dead sleep) idea of eating breakfast a little later than 6:30.

On Wednesday, 28-Jan-2004 00:04:09 EST, Ethan said
I really like Winter Camp Savings Time. I think it adds to the sense of being away at Winter Camp. maybe we should make some sort of drastic change, like run the days from 6am to 10pm. We could eat breakfast at 6.30, lunch at 11 and dinner at 5, snack at at 8 and lights out at 10. If day one was locked into that schedule, it could work, because there would be no trouble for people losing sleep, I think

On Saturday, 10-Jan-2004 18:28:10 EST, cj said
I want to see more pictures


On Saturday, 10-Jan-2004 01:17:15 EST, Steve said
There's two choices, right? Either get up at 8 and get going or change the clock and get up at 9 and get going. I'm not sure which is better.

On Saturday, 10-Jan-2004 01:05:05 EST, Jeff said
Since we instituted WCST people have risen earlier relative to dawn. It has allowed us to use more of the precious daylight. As far as staying up too late, before WCST we often stayed up until 2. We still stay up to 2, but we get to sleep until nearly 9.

On Saturday, 10-Jan-2004 01:02:38 EST, Dave said
Amen...If anything, I'd set it back an hour.

On Saturday, 10-Jan-2004 00:13:46 EST, Steve said
I think Savings Time creates the illusion of more time and encourages people to stay up too late.

On Wednesday, 07-Jan-2004 22:09:12 EST, Jeff said
I think Winter Camp Savings Time has worked quite well and should continue. Daylight is scarce in the low sun in sky all day season. As to 3 meals, I think it would work. Perhaps there could be a truly continental breakfast like a pre-packaged muffin (no dishes or silverware used) available for those who like a quick bite before the morning events.

On Wednesday, 07-Jan-2004 16:09:07 EST, Dave said
John and I have discussed this to some degree and will probably put some pseudo-example together soon (while it's still fresh in our minds.) I think we can do much of what's been proposed without changing the spirit, texture, or feel of the camp--but at the same time maybe spicing it up...

On Tuesday, 06-Jan-2004 23:51:06 EST, Ethan said
I say we a really tough attitude of 'earn your keep' at winter camp. lets not fool around with asking people to run events or do small things. I'm all for getting told what to do, then doing it. It might work to build a greater sense of stewardship of Winter Camp in the participants.

On Tuesday, 06-Jan-2004 21:24:55 EST, Steve said
I think we should do away with Winter Camp Standard time, serve a brunch around 11:00 (after the first activity of the day), have dinner around 6 and snack around 10.

On Tuesday, 06-Jan-2004 20:56:48 EST, Jeff said
As expressed in the generic schedule, I still think the first day should have an exciting theme/quest activity. This does encourage a need for pre-camp set up. On this note, I believe a more complete duty roster is needed throughout to include set up and clean up. It could also include the various camp chores desribed in the evening ideas on the generic schedule. It would be neat to have a team of 4 youth and advisor put together an issue of the newspaper, for example.

The afternoon of Day 2 could include the Winter Camp University. Perhaps two separate and complete classes. The rest of the weekette would allow for homework assignments.

On the final day, one meal could be served, but I would not buy any food for it initially. Also, no one should leave before he completes his assignments. Of course, I would like to see additional activities. However, I don't think an early rise and shine is needed on this day.

On Tuesday, 06-Jan-2004 01:30:31 EST, Steve D. said
The more things change...
Generic Schedule Discussion.
The above is about 5 years old, there's no reason it couldn't serve as a jumping off place still.

On Tuesday, 06-Jan-2004 01:03:26 EST, Ethan said
I like John's idea of the 'Ideal Schedule.' I also agree that the meal situation should change. We could even make Rand Stew for breakfast on the 31st. I like having a day of activity on the 31st personally, but it is obvious that some people really want to get out asap. Maybe we could save a big event until the 31st, like snow soccer.
I'd also like to throw my name in the hat of the volunteers for the Winter Camp News Editor.

On Monday, 05-Jan-2004 13:42:35 EST, Steve said
The clear difficulty with the setup day is that it requires someone to say "You, you and you may not come up on this day" and then enforce it. Paul made a valiant attempt this year, but it didn't work out. I'm afraid we'd have the same thing next year.
I think the early day needs to return to it's original purpose: a group of people who arrive early to set things up. We put the stuff in the kitchen, secure a few tables and whatnot and it is valuable, but there's no real need to arrive by noon just so we can do about 3 hours of real work. Back when we'd have electronic gear to set up it made more sense. Perhaps this year we'll work out exactly what will be setup on the setup day and then determine who comes and when. Had I remembered the tables from the basement this year (D'oh!), we'd have had no need for a table excursion at all.
We also need to make it less attractive - one key to that might be to require top bunk usage in proportion to bottom bunk on that day and for the remainder of camp.

On Monday, 05-Jan-2004 11:09:33 EST, John said
Well the arrival and departures are problematic (folks with family/other obligations notwithstanding). We have had problems in recent years with people showing up on the 26th unannounced, not congregating at bollmans when they were expected to and of course (my personal favorite) leaving early.
I have a couple of ideas..(some have been mentioned):
Eliminating the setup day
Creating a strict setup day list (if you not ain't staying).
Better coordination of the first day leaving (not that this hasn't been tried repeatedly)
and the whopper....
eliminating the New Year's Eve day entirely--either leaving in the afternoon on the 30th or early in the morning on the 31st. Before everyone howls at me....most people seem to be in hurry to get home, perhaps its the NYE holiday, or maybe they are just eager for home. Either way the 31st seems like kind of a bust...I know of several campers who would just as soon be home sooner so that NYE plans can be finalized and such.
As for the food I agree, I think I said it before...we spend too much time on food (prep, cooking, cleaning). Having a few large meals is good, but maybe the snacks (with exception of the bakery snack) could be simpler (pretzels, popcorn or perhaps cookies/cakes from the aforementioned bakery snack. We seem to pick meals on their own, and perhaps we should look at more of a day approach. For example, Bollmano's is a hearty satisfying meal, having it 3 hours after a big dinner and just before bed is "less than ideal".
Maybe an interesting idea would be for wintercampers either individually or in small groups to "create the ideal schedule". This would be a no holds it anyway you'd like and includes meals (or lack thereof). The idea would be more of a brainstorming exercise than a useable schedule. We could probably get several good ideas from this...and we would definately need youth participation.

On Monday, 05-Jan-2004 02:44:23 EST, Ethan said
I like the idea of having a 'winter camp ends' posted on the schedule, or something like that.
I think that some arrival problems could be avoided if everyone went from Allen Park on the 27th. There is a sense of arrival lasting from the 26th to the end of th 27th, it seems. If everyone went togheter, it would seem like we were more together from the get go.

On Sunday, 04-Jan-2004 14:52:13 EST, Steve D. said
We should probably do two things:
1) Ask that campers arrive by noon on Day 1 and depart no earlier than 1:00 on day 5. That doesn't mean people couldn't leave earlier if they needed to, just that we'd have established a time for camp to end. The schedule only appears to do that since many people, parents included, appear to consider cleanup optional. We may create some of that mess ourselves with the setup day and crew.
2)Get a much better take on who is arriving at camp how. The form tries, but many were blank and Mark--> had much slack to pick up. Thanks for doing that by the way.

On Sunday, 04-Jan-2004 14:09:24 EST, Mark--> said
Answer: There were about 15 people settling in for the Conglomerate Lunch on Wednesday.
Question: Do we need to adress formally the question of when Winter Camp ends?

On Sunday, 04-Jan-2004 00:30:12 EST, Steve said
We'll just have to be careful that the various ideas we try don't crash into each other - having fewer meals would mean fewer leftovers. I wasn't there for the end - how many people were left? Breakfast we'd really only lost three people I think. We could lower the food count for the final meal.

On Friday, 02-Jan-2004 21:31:01 EST, Jeff said
I would suggest that we do not purchase any food for the last day. Too many people leave early and there are enough left overs.

On Thursday, 01-Jan-2004 22:42:59 EST, Ricky said
I think that's a really good idea.

On Wednesday, 31-Dec-2003 13:09:48 EST, Steve said
I'm going to suggest that even if we don't do it all the time we consider a day or two with only three meals - brunch, dinner, and snack. I think we have a lot to eat and spend more time than necessary preparing it.

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